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The Secret (a treasure hunt) / Image 09
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Image 09

Page history last edited by Oregonian 11 months, 3 weeks ago

General notes on Image 9

  • This is the image for October and the immigration reference is to the Netherlands.
  • This image is thought to be linked to Verse 5 and a casque in Montreal, Canada.
  • For anyone interested in possible connections to Île Notre-Dame, Île Sainte-Hélène, and/or Expo 67, the expo 67 terre des hommes photo album on Flickr is an absolute must-see.  It has over 19,000 (!) historical photos of the area, showing just what a crazy acid trip of an experience the 1967 Expo must have been.



Image 9


Specific Observations

  Please record your notes about this image in the list below.  Use the letter/number grid to identify the point on the image that you're describing.  To keep things organized, 1) please start each observation with a letter/number combo (in bold), and 2) add new observations in the right place on the list to keep everything alphabetized.

  • D5 - The jewel in the middle of the hat is an opal, the birth stone for October.
  • D7 - The smooth outline of the hat changes to some very specific bulges here.  The shape of the outline is a reasonable match for a wider view of the SE bank of the St. Lawrence river where it passes Montreal.  
  • E3 - There's something hidden in the curls near the man's right ear.  Some people see letters and possibly a face.
  • E5 - The curls on the forehead may form "J19" or possibly "J9".
  • F7 - The curls of hair under the man's left ear are probably forming numbers or letters.  If letters, they might be JSA, JSH, or JSR.
  • F9 - Something is scratched into the wall here.  Some people see "Fèe" (the french word for fairy).  Others see "Peel" (a street near the legeater dog in the Golden Square Mile). 
  • G5-6 - There are four collar shapes that are obviously significant here.  Two are on the outer black coat and two are on the inner white shirt.
  • H4 - The flower is probably a cosmos, one of the birth flowers for October.
  • H5 - The stairstep pattern below the collar is very likely a stepped gable or crow-stepped gable from a roofline.  This fits in with the Dutch connection for the image, because such gables were a common, traditional design in Belgium and the Netherlands.
  • H7 - The square symbol above the dog contains an X indicating "10" (for the tenth month, October).  It also contains two symbols that may be runes (see below).  The "X" could represent an intersection where a small street crosses a larger one.
  • I4 - The number "67" (or possibly "467") is hidden in the flower.  The "6" could also be a musical note. 1967 is the year that Montreal hosted the universal exposition.
  • I7 - The legeater dog is the most distinctive feature of this illustration and it may be a reference to a lamp post at 1440 Rue Drummond in the middle of the Golden Square Mile.  (See below for more info.)
  • I7 - The black symbol next to the legeater dog is thought to be a representation of the Habitat 67 Building.
  • J6 & K6 - The hands appear to be forming some kind of symbol, possibly a church.
  • K4 & K7 - The sleeve cuffs have a checkered pattern that may be a reference to the checkered flags waved at the end of an auto race.  Montreal is the location for the Canadian Grand Prix that is held on Notre Dame Island.  The sleeve cuffs are also very similar to the sleeve cuffs in Image 1.  In both cases, the squares start very clearly and distinctly at the top and then fade away toward the bottom.



Image Matches

  The most distinctive feature of Image 9 is the "legeater dog" that appears in a golden rectangle on the man's shirt.  The design closely matches the (bizarre) bases on the lampposts outside the George Stephen House located at 1440 Drummond Street in Montreal.  The house was built in 1883 for George Stephen, 1st Baron Mount Stephen.  The lamps are an Italian design and very similar lamps are still in use in Palermo, Sicily.  (See photos here, here, here, and here.)  However, no other examples of this design have yet been found in North America.


  Most landmarks in The Secret are deliberately modified and obscured in Palencar's images.  The design of the lamppost base, however, is captured in unusual detail.  Only one thing seems to have been changed: the nose of the animal has been lengthened to change it from a cat or some kind of goblin into a recognizable dog.


Photo by wiki user Delilah, our Montreal detective!

  The legeater dog appears inside a golden rectangle and the image has a repeated motif of gold-colored squares.  They appear on the beret, the cuffs, and the neckline of the jacket.  This is very likely a strong hint in the direction of the Golden Square Mile, a neighborhood of historic older homes at the foot of Mount Royal in Montreal.


  The George Stephen House, with the legeater lamp posts, is located near the center of the Golden Square Mile.


  The shape beside the legeater dog has not yet been explained.  It appears to be formed from a series of connected squares with a few curves on one side.


  If the gold-colored rectangle represents Montreal's Golden Square Mile, it's possible that this is a cross-section or floor plan for one of the historic buildings.  To identify the building, we may need to look at aerial photos from around 1980.


  The other interpretation that has been proposed for this shape is that it is an abstract representation of the Habitat 67 Building, which is visible across the St. Lawrence River from Notre Dame Island.


  There are two main theories for how to interpret the beret that fills the top of the picture.  The first theory is that the broad, spreading shape might be a representation of Mount Royal, which forms the skyline over downtown Montreal.


  If the man's head represents Mount Royal, it would make sense that the face would be half sad, because half the hilltop is taken up with a cemetary.


  This photo was taken from the northeast side of Mount Royal, looking to the southwest. 


  Obviously, the wavy lines on the right side of the hat must be a representation of something.  It would be very helpful to find the right match, because that might tell us where we should be standing when we face the hilltop.

By Montrealais at English Wikipedia - Transferred from en.wikipedia to Commons., CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=2974363

  The other major interpretation for the shape of the beret is that it is a reflected and (very) stylized representation of the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve on Notre Dame Island in the Saint Lawrence River.  The track was built in 1978 and is the home of the FIA Formula One Canadian Grand Prix.


  The picture on top at right is a reflected copy of the original beret.  Note that the wavy lines on one side of the beret roughly correspond to turns 11 through 15 in the map at right.

Map of the 1980 layout of Circuit Gilles Villeneuve by Xander89, taken from Wikimedia Commons. CC-BY-SA-3.0

  The repeated use of a checkerboard pattern - and particularly the two checkered cuffs - might be connected in some way with the checkered flag used to signal a winner in an auto race.  The Canadian Grand Prix has been held on the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve (almost) every summer since 1978.


  The start & finish line for the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve was repositioned several times over the years, but (fortunately) racing enthusiasts kept track of the different layouts.  The map in the row above is correct for 1978 to 1986, which is the time frame when Preiss would have been there.

The shape of the Montreal and Laval islands could be shown in the man's mouth and chin...
... or perhaps in the man's mouth and nose.  Either way, it's a strong match for the city of Montreal.

  Alternatively, the mouth could be a representation of the mirrored shape of the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve.  The north end of the track forms the smiling side of the mouth, while the south end forms the frowning side. 


  In particular, the hairpin curve known as "L'Epingle" at the northern tip of the circuit seems to be clearly shown at the edge of the man's smile.


  The left side of the white shirt collar may form the outline of southwestern Quebec, where the boundary drops south, turns eastwards for awhile, and then makes a final, short drop to the south beside Montreal.

  The right side of the white shirt collar forms a very reasonable representation of the St. Lawrence River, as it flows northeast through Montreal.


  This is one of the strongest pieces of evidence confirming the Montreal location.

  The neckline of the man's shirt features a series of steps that go down and up.  When inverted, it forms the shape of a crow-stepped gable, which was a distinctive architectural feature in Holland.  The inclusion here might be just a nod to the immigration match or it might represent a specific building.


  By far the best match that has been found for the pattern on the man's neckline is the roofline of Trafalgar School for Girls in Montreal (far right).  The Trafalgar School is located within the Golden Square Mile, across Avenue du Docteur Penfield from Percy Walters Park.  There are probably more crow-stepped gables to be found in other historic neighborhoods, such as Old Montreal.


  Alternatively, the steps and checkerboard may be a nod to one of the stairstepped buildings found in Montreal.  The Sun Life Building that borders Dorchester Sq. is one candidate.  Another is the Aldred Building in Old Montreal.
  There's an interesting cross-hatched pattern on the man's neckline above the stairsteps.  The only strong match that has been proposed for that is on the trading stickers for the 1980 F1 Grand Prix season.  (The card for Montreal is shown at far right, but all of the racetrack layouts in the sticker series have the same background.)

  The flower on the shirt appears to be almost a cross between a calendula and a cosmos, both birth flowers for October.  It's also very similar to the Montreal city logo (far right) that was adopted and publicized in 1981 after a contest.  Each lobe of the "logo flower" is meant to be a combination of the letters V & M, for "Ville de Montreal."

  The flower on the shirt appears to contain the numbers 76, 67, and/or 767. Expo 67 was held in Montreal in 1967.  The Olympics were held in Montreal in 1976.  Both events were staged (at least in part) on Notre Dame Island, an artificial island that was built for the event in the Saint Lawrence River.

  Several people have also suggested that the flower could represent a rose window of the kind often found in cathedrals and other religious buildings.

  There's a rose window at Dawson College, which is a few blocks south of the Golden Square Mile.  The window is made of tan stone that matches the color used in the painting. 


  There's an even more flower-like rosette on the towers of the Notre-Dame Basilica located in the historic district of Old Montreal.  The basilica match has the advantage of being located beside the Aldred Building, which is a natural match for the stairstep pattern on the man's shirt.


  The man's hands form an awkward and unusual position, with some fingers pointing upwards and others arched over and down. 


  The best explanation that has been proposed is that this is a reference to a sculpture by Alexander Calder that was created for the 1967 World's Fair on Île Sainte-Hélène.  The title of the work is "L'Homme" (Man) so it's fitting that the image shows a man making the shape.  The sculpture was relocated in 1991, but at the time Preiss visited it would have been directly along the route described on the Verse 5 page.

"Man, Three Disks" by Alexander Calder, Île Sainte-Hélène, Montreal
Photograph by Montrealais, from Wikimedia Commons. CC-BY-SA-3.0
  On the wall to the right of the man there are some scratchings that are obviously significant.  If those letters spell out "Peel," as some people have suggested, it could be a hint toward Rue Peel, which runs through the Golden Square Mile two blocks away from Rue Drummond.  Rue Peel also runs all the way down to the river and ends up in Griffintown, just two blocks away from where the Canada launched (see Verse 5 for more info).

 The square with the X appears to contain two runes.  The one on the left appears to be wunjô.  The one on the right appears to be a reflected version of laguz.


 The "runes" have an interesting resemblance to the characters in the logo for Expo 67.  The logo appears prominently on a wall at the Place des Nations, where the opening and closing ceremonies were held.

Expo 67 logo.svg
By Julien Hébert - Official Expo 1967 Guide Book. Toronto: Maclean-Hunter Publishing Co. Ltd. 1967. p.29, Public Domain.

  The collar of the man's robe may have an outline that represents the roads around Mount Royal.  (Note that the map at far right is turned almost upside-down, so north is at the lower right.)


  If this interpretation is correct, the lowest, central park of the neckline (between 4 and 5) would correspond to the George-Étienne Cartier Monument on Av du Parc.  The stretch between 3 and 4 would be contained inside the campus of McGill University.


  This map interprets the edge of the shirt collar (the blue line) as the Voie Camillien-Houde, the road that divides Mount Royal between the cemetery and the park.

  The hair contains various curves that could be numbers.




Latitude / Longitude Hints

Montreal is between the latitudes of 45 and 46 degrees north.  It is between the longitudes of 73 and 74 degrees west.




The Rembrandt Connection:

Image 9 appears to be a visual reference to Self-Portrait with Beret and Turned-Up Collar, which was painted by Rembrandt in 1659.


Each painting shows a single individual seated before a flat, golden-brown background that only varies in subtle degrees of light.  Each subject is wearing dark robes that tend to fade into the background and is seated with clasped hands, looking directly at the viewer.

The figure in each portrait is wearing a beret that crosses the forehead in a broad arch.  Graying, curly hair protrudes from under the beret on each side, partially covering each subject's ears.
The tunic worn by each subject has a high collar that runs along the lower edge of a cheek before plunging down to leave an open neckline where it meets the chin.




The Mirrored Composite Structure:

  • The two sides of the man's face do not show the usual symmetry.  The individual is smiling with an open eye on the left side of the image and frowning with a more narrowed eye on the right.  In addition, the left half of the background is dark and the right half is light and the necklines on the two sides of the tunic are not symmetrical.  All of these contrasts suggest that the image is meant to be a combination of two different figures (or of two different aspects of the same figure).
  • If you place a mirror along the line of the jewel and the nose, you can create either a smiling face on a dark background or a frowning face on a light background.  (The smiling, sharp-nosed fellow with the wide hat and high collar looks very much like Napoleon Bonaparte. Note: There is a restaurant in Montreal named Bonaparte, close to the St. Lawrence River.)
Original image of Christ the Saviour (Pantokrator), a 6th-century encaustic icon from Saint Catherine's Monastery, Mount Sinai. Mirrored composites formed from each of the two sides of the face (using Photoshop) to make it easier for people to visualize the two different depictions.




The Percy Walters Park Theory:

  Most of the discussion on the Verse 5 page centers on Saint Helen's Island in the St. Lawrence river, but the clues in the image seem to point in a different direction.  One strong match that has been proposed is Percy Walters Park at the base of Mt. Royal near downtown Montreal.  Consider the following evidence:

  The use of the man's beret as a representation of Mount Royal would make sense for Percy Walters Park, which is located at the base of the hill.



  The golden rectangle on the front of the man's shirt may be a reference to the Golden Square Mile, a neighborhood of historic older homes near downtown Montreal.  Percy Walters Park (outlined in red on the map at far right) is inside the Golden Square Mile.
  The best match that has been found for the "stairstep" pattern on the man's neckline is the top of the Trafalgar School for Girls in Montreal.  The Trafalgar School is across the street from Percy Walters Park.
Photo by wiki user Delilah.  (Thanks!)
  On the south side of the park, where Avenue McGregor makes a bend, there is a sign with a gold-and-black checkerboard pattern that resembles the pattern on the man's shirt and cuffs.
Photo by wiki user Delilah.  (Thanks again!)
  No one has ever offered a strong explanation for why the "legeater dog" is in the picture. The lamp bases at the former Mount Stephen Club are actually fairly small (see image at far right) and they are not a well-known symbol for Montreal.  Most searchers agree that the casque is not buried at that spot.  But if the gold-colored rectangle refers to the Golden Square Mile, we may be looking for a place that is somehow associated with dogs inside those boundaries.  And Percy Walters Park is an off-leash dog park.  (This might also explain why the image is considerably more dog-like than the original lamp base, which may actually show a cat of some kind.)
Photo by wiki user Delilah, our Montreal detective.
And, finally, there is the interesting interview that Byron Preiss gave to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch on 10/25/1982.  In describing his adventures burying the casques, Preiss volunteered that "dogs got in an uproar" at one site.  None of the other proposed locations in other cities are in off-leash dog parks, so it makes sense that Montreal would be the site of this experience.




Other Notes:

  • Several people have suggested that the design on the front of the shirt might actually be a map of the area on the southeast side of Mount Royal in Montreal.  (Click on map below to see a larger version.)
  • Under this interpretation, the zig-zag neckline would be the "stairstep" boundary of Mount Royal Park.  The lowest point of the neckline would be the Trafalgar School (which also has the stairstep profile).  The legeater dog in the gold box would be the George Stephen House inside Montreal's Golden Square Mile.  And the flower could represent the rosette window at the College Dawson.
  • The Abbot's fingers form an X more or less directly over Edifice/Academie Bourget, however, his hands take up so much space in the picture that the "church" he's creating could be the Anglican Church of St. James the Apostle (Rue St. Catherine X Rue Bishop), or the Soeurs Grises Convent (there is a mall on the NW side that has a large arch-shaped window that could be the "arc of lights" from the verse). 




Questions, questions, questions...

  • Is there some significance to the way the hands are clasped with certain fingers raised?
  • What is the meaning of the two runes in the square with the X?
  • What is the meaning of the black shape beside the "legeater dog"?  If it's a floor plan, what building does it match?
  • What do the curves at the right edge of the hat represent?  (A road?  A river?)




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Comments (87)

Sæthór Máni Hjálmarsson said

at 3:07 pm on Apr 3, 2015

The pattern on the man's neckline also looks like a pattern on The Church of St. Andrew and St. Pauls side, seen from Rue Redpath.

Nemotoad said

at 10:36 pm on May 27, 2015

Using the picture as a map, with the "legeater" marking Rue Drummond, and the collar of his shirt marking Rue Simpson, and the flower marking the spot to dig (because it is the birth flower, which should lead us to the key to get the birthstone [I use the same idea for the New York picture]), we would dig somewhere around Rue du Fort. I did some investigating and found Ernest Cormier Esplanade, which has lines of white stones. If you start with the line of stones on the south side (along Rt 720), and walk 12 paces from the west side (along René-Lévesque Blvd W), you should be near the dig site. This is not the definite solution, but everything fits the image, so I believe that it is probably correct.

Espigy said

at 11:22 pm on Oct 13, 2015

I feel like the comments here are on the right track already, but I wanted to share something - most likely an odd coincidence.

I've been looking at this image quite a bit today. Something about the hair at 7/F seemed significant.
I flipped it upside down - http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/101790352/A-Hair.jpg
I saw what looked like 73 5. - http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/101790355/B-Hair-num.jpg
The observation above that the flower seems to contain 467, I think could be read as 457 - http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/101790358/C-Flower-num.jpg
There's actually something interesting at 73.5ºW, 45.7ºN on the island of Montreal.
It's a monument to the Battle of Coulée Grou - actually located at 45.698909°N 73.503800°W, according to Wikipedia.
This image is from 2009 - the white monument stone has been replaced with something else, but I was struck by the monument and the associated tree, which reminded me of the latter half of Verse 5.
I wonder if it looked even lonelier back in the 80s - its leafy neighbours seem young.

Cammie said

at 7:26 am on Nov 30, 2016

I actually may have found something to support this! If you look at the man's fingers, they kind of form the shape of the monument from a profile view.

DanaSkully said

at 11:10 pm on Oct 14, 2015

The George Stephen House, which features the “legeater” - is located centrally in a neighborhood known as the Golden Square Mile. In Image 9, the legeater extends its leg and hoof out of the symbolic square. On a map, there does exist a leg/hoof shaped green space below the center of the GSM.

It’s two parks: Dorchester Sq to the north (the “leg”), and Place du Canada (the “hoof”) to the south. They are both adjacent to the intersection of Peel and Levesque streets, with Metcalfe Street also a border (look at the square with the “P” and “L”, you can also kind of see an “M”.

The shape located in the picture in the square with the lion’s head, is something I’ve match to the neighboring Mary, Queen of the World Cathedral as seen from Dorchester Square/Place du Canada, it’s hard to pinpoint because of google maps views being blocked by trees. Here’s a head-on picture of the Cathedral: http://www.tourisme-montreal.org/TMImages/01500-01599/01510/mary-queen-of-the-world-cathedral_3.jpg

The wingless bird might be the Place Ville Marie, built way before 1980, which was once the tallest building in Montreal - as viewed from the street. Looks to me like a bird: http://files1.structurae.de/files/photos/1/945747/fh000024.jpg.

It’s .3 miles from Dorchester Sq.

Alternately, if you go south from Place du Canada, where the “hoof” is pointing, you’ll find Bonaventure station, which was built before 1980. First off, picture after picture of Bonaventure station resembles this: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/154/357872930_2972c4d6a2.jpg.

Yes, lit arches. But I doubt we are supposed to dig underground. It does fit “roots extended,” though.

Other than Bonaventure station the whole are the “hoof” is pointing to has seen heavy construction since 1990, and it seems nothing remains from pre-1980.

DanaSkully said

at 12:39 pm on Oct 15, 2015

The building located right next to Dorchester Square is the Sun Life Building, built in 1931. It has 5 “steps” to it’s silhouette, like the man’s garment in G3 thru G7.

Here’s a picture: http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/24224ea682b54e40b40720c2b2b97c60/sun-life-building-montreal-ctffrh.jpg

I’m thinking the checkerboard patters throughout image 9 might be lit windows from the Sun Life and Ville Marie buildings (see my comment above re Ville Marie).

The ridges on the man’s collar in G5 are very similar to the silhouette of the Boer War Memorial located in Dorchester Square.

Here’s the memorial and Sun Life building together: http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/60/94/f8/rue-ste-catherine.jpg

Better pic of war memorial outline (to better compare to G5): http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/22163255/6/stock-photo-22163255-boer-war-memorial-and-sun-life-building-in-montreal-quebec.jpg

Finally, the hand position in J6 is shaped to resemble the horse on the Boer War Memorial: https://d38ls2kcjnhfdj.cloudfront.net/6bde3946-7523-4f1b-a4f1-109be093fcd6_l.JPG

Bonus pic: http://gvrpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DSC8687.jpg

DanaSkully said

at 3:19 am on Oct 24, 2015

I created an Imgur album with all of my evidence. Pictures and more pictures to make my case.
Take a look! http://imgur.com/a/6V7Xb

Merlot Brougham said

at 10:35 am on Oct 24, 2015

René Lévesque Boulevard was named "Dorchester Boulevard" until 1987, so nothing in the puzzle could possibly be referencing René Lévesque Boulevard.

Diane said

at 7:51 pm on Aug 15, 2016

Regarding the 'wind swept halls', it could mean Buckminster Fuller's geodesic dome on Île Ste-Hélène (the United States pavilion during the 1967 universal exposition) and which burned in 1976, leaving only its metallic structure intact : http://archivesdemontreal.com/2015/07/16/chronique-montrealite-no-41-breve-histoire-de-la-biosphere/
As well, it could possibly refer to a train or metro station, where the platforms are always swept by gusts of wind with the arrival and departure of trains.

Laurie said

at 3:02 am on May 22, 2017

There's seems to be a word written on the wall at F9. It could read "fêe M". I wonder if this can be read any clearer on a physical copy of the image.

Oregonian said

at 7:59 am on Jun 30, 2017

The New York Times has a front-page article this morning about Expo 67 and Saint Helen's Island (Île Sainte-Hélène). Lots of good history and "then and now" photography. Might be useful to someone.

Oregonian said

at 8:07 am on Jun 30, 2017

I missed it at the time, but the New York Times also had an article last month about Habitat 67, across the river from the island. https://nyti.ms/2qrSlgh

Fenix said

at 5:19 pm on Aug 1, 2017

The "legeater"....oh the "legeater". Why this is so prominent in a picture still blows my mind. It's too small and specific to be a confirmation that you are in the right city and the treasure is a half mile away...or over a bridge, on a separate island.

This point alone has always told me that something is off. Is there another "legeater" out there somewhere? Has the terrain around the George Stephen House, errr, I mean Mount St. Stephen Club...um, now Le Mount Stephen boutique hotel and Bar George changed so drastically that this location was in fact very close to the burial site.

Guardian said

at 5:51 pm on Aug 1, 2017

It doesn't make any sense that they would be all over Palermo, but only one would be in North America, unless it was actually brought over by an immigrant. Since we don't know the history of the lamp, we need someone to do some inquiries there.

Oregonian said

at 7:29 pm on Aug 4, 2017

I think the "runes square" on the man's shirt is probably the most important part of the puzzle, and we've never really found a strong interpretation. Could the two crossed lines be an intersection? If so, one road is definitely larger than the other.

Odeyin said

at 2:07 pm on Aug 24, 2017

Check this out...going with a blimp angle (considering the ancient flight of wingless bird and the elongation of the head) this blurb from Wikipedia at:en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aviation_in_Canada

On September 8, 1856, French aeronaut, Eugène Godard, operating a balloon called Canada (the first aircraft ever constructed in Canada), piloted the country's first successful passenger flight, carrying three passengers from Montreal to Pointe-Olivier, Quebec.[3][4]

Maybe there is something that commerates the event at or near the Montreal start point.

David said

at 10:41 am on Oct 17, 2017

I just realized that the nose of the guy on Image 9 is the Montreal olympique stadium tower. See picture here: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8f/99/59/8f9959de6b2c7dd7949d9fa8c6e730aa--olympic-stadium-montreal-expo-.jpg

Sherri said

at 10:58 pm on Jan 18, 2018

thoughts on area H7, the image looks somewhat like the jumbotron at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve raceway when the screens are down. the cables form an X. its located at the hairpin turn which is turn 10. instead of runes, the symbols could simply represent F1, since its a Formula 1 racetrack.
(wish I could attach a picture)

Daniel said

at 8:58 pm on Jan 19, 2018

Did anybody notice or does anybody already know?...that in the Expedition unknown tv series it showed the original paintings, and in this painting next to the (Leg eater statue?) it shows a fleurdelis instead of a black box looking thing...not sure if that helps? Just proves it’s Definitely Montereal. I would post a picture, but I can’t figure how to paste it on here...lol

bf5man said

at 9:03 pm on Jan 23, 2018

You have eagle eyes Daniel. I've used some photoshop magic to create an animated gif of the two versions.
We could presume Byron thought the Fleur de Lys image would throw some people off since it could be linked to the New Orleans Saints logo (Chicago also refer to a sports team logo), maybe he had a change of heart since the Quebec interpretation was the only other logical interpretation. Notice also the vertical line in the middle of the Fleur de Lys, it could be a subtle reference to the 1981 independence referendum where Quebec voted to split or not from Canada.

Daniel said

at 10:24 pm on Jan 23, 2018

Thanks! Awesome gif! I was thinking that too about it making people think New Orleans Saints...lol

Helena said

at 12:38 am on Feb 24, 2018

Wow! thats really great, but this doesnt mean that the black blob that is in the place of the fleur de lys doesn't symbolise anything , does it? I mean if he just covered up the fleur de lys , which was a clue, so that he didnt want to throw people off, did he replace it with another hint? This is confusing me lol

Indigoone said

at 7:20 pm on Feb 27, 2018

I noticed this as well. I also wasn't sure how to post it on here lol! I have thought about it quite a bit, and am thought about it quite a bit and am torn. On one hand, he may have felt the symbol was not specific enough, and thus chose something more central to the location. On the other hand I think it could cause confusion because the state of Louisiana's symbol is the fluer de lis. That had me questioning if this picture is not connected to Louisiana. My head is spinning lol.

Sherri said

at 8:31 pm on Jan 20, 2018

on area D5 - has anyone noticed the hair on the forehead? it lends itself to the shape of the lower half of the island where the biosphere is, with the circle roughly in the location of the biosphere.

Sherri said

at 11:41 pm on Jan 20, 2018

maybe the checkered flag pattern on the clothing in the picture is from the pattern painted on the top of the tower seen across from the island,.. as seen in this picture on this website

the tower does not look to be present today

Delilah said

at 12:48 pm on Jan 21, 2018

Hi Sherri, the tower was a Gasometer and it was in Hochelaga neighborhood which is not that close to the island. Still had shivers when I saw your picture!

Weeping Angel said

at 6:16 pm on Feb 4, 2018

I think the shape of his hands resemble Montreal City Hall. There are white stones in front of city hall in the Champ-de-Mars park. You would definitely want to get permission to dig out in front of city hall. The citadel clue would fit because that's where the wall around the city was. The military used this area so the flight clue could fit if they flew anything from there.

Indigoone said

at 9:47 pm on Mar 1, 2018

I found this article on immigration into Canada by the Dutch. It's a touching read about the connection between the two. I really do think that this is what Byron Preiss wanted everyone to learn and appreciate. I've learned so many amazing and interesting things about the world since I became so fascinated and invested in this book. The challenge of figuring out these puzzles is addictive. You truly are going down the rabbit hole once you learn of it, but it's so much more than just a treasure hunt.

Odeyin said

at 8:35 pm on Apr 6, 2018

So his collar is the Delta Chi Gamma and since Chi is emphasized we could surmise that it is a number.. 600 then the rest would be Delta: 4 and Gamma: 3 turning out to be 643... the address at the above park referenced is around 16430...maybe just a coincidence.

References for Greek Numbers: http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/history/HistTopics/Greek_numbers.html

Greek Variant Forms notice: Gamma and Delta are nearly identical in this image.

Mister EZ said

at 11:02 am on Apr 7, 2018


Just for clarification, you're talking about that, correct?

Odeyin said

at 2:23 pm on Apr 7, 2018

Yes. BTW..The outline of the park(shore) came first then the numbers so it could be me just pigeon holing...but it is a strange coincidence.

Odeyin said

at 2:27 pm on Apr 7, 2018

Another interesting coincidence is that Notre Dame Church is not far away..a few blocks at most.(from the park mentioned above.) Which could be referenced by the man's hands forming a steeple.

Mister EZ said

at 10:29 am on Apr 7, 2018

Are you talking about the outline formed by the shoreline or the path that's in the park?

Odeyin said

at 2:20 pm on Apr 7, 2018

The outline of the shore. The path probably has changed.

Weeping Angel said

at 4:33 pm on Apr 12, 2018

Someone had mentioned that the black blob next to the legeater wasn't in the original painting that was shown at John Palencar's studio on TV. It looks like that was added later to cover up a fleur de lis.
Here are screen shots showing the original painting.

bf5man said

at 4:37 pm on Apr 12, 2018

You can also look at my animated gif to compare them: https://i.imgur.com/qmlV4I6.gifv

Jess said

at 4:51 pm on Apr 12, 2018

That’s so interesting! Do you have any other screenshots from the show?

Obviously the fleur de lys will be in a lot of places in Montreal, but... “In New France, the fleur-de-lys appeared on one of the cornerstones of Notre-Dame church in Montréal” ( http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/m/article/fleur-de-lys/ )

John Murray said

at 8:02 pm on Apr 12, 2018

The Fleur-de-lys is on our Provincial flag and has been since 1948. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Quebec
The Fleurs-de-lis (symbols of purity) and blue field (symbolizing Heaven) come from a banner honouring the Virgin Mary.
You will find that many things refer to Mary. The Calendula flower on the painting is also known as a Marigold in honor of the Virgin Mary.
Montreal was once known as Ville Marie.
Ville Marie is also a borough in downtown Montreal.
Situated within this borough is one of our greatest landmarks known as Place Ville Marie building which was built in a cross shape. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/125473991/1_place_ville_marie-fp.jpg
You will notice that is also looks much like the checkered pattern found on the painting. It also was back in 1981 the logo of the building. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/125473976/Building%20Logo.jpg
Its possible that BP thought that the final version did not have enough clues to help find the final location and therefore removed the fleur-de-lys to add what I think is an outline of the final location. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/120191823/Image09_golden_squares.jpg.
I found this outline to be Place Ville Marie plaza. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/125474048/Plaza%20outline.jpg
The flower on the painting would represent the fountain situated at the plaza notice the "V" shape notches which match up with the aerial view of the fountain seen at the bottom right of this image. https://www.dreamstime.com/editorial-photo-place-ville-marie-belvedere-view-th-floor-pvm-short-large-office-shopping-complex-central-montreal-quebec-image84597836
Notice the 4 skylights with pyramid like features on the roof which resembles much like the triangles on the collar of the painting.http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/123559014/collar%20shape.jpg
Here is a view from within the skylight much like the square with an X. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/125474027/esplanande%20windows.jpg

Mitchell said

at 10:37 am on Jun 18, 2018

Hey guys, I'm brand new to this board. I wanted to throw out a theory on the "black blob".

We know it covers a Fleur De Lys. I'm a graphic designer and the image is, to me, an abstract version of the EXPO 67 Express Monorail. You can see little windows. The raised track underneath is pronounced, how older graphic designers would have abstracted it.

Front image of the Expo Express:

Wikipedia information:

Track destinations:
Place d’Accueil closed 1968
Habitat 67 closed 1967
Saint Lawrence River
Saint Helen
Moyne Channel
Notre Dame
Notre Dame East opened 1969
Moyne Channel
La Ronde
Maintenance center

Might be way off here, but hopefully any little bit helps :D


Fandango said

at 6:10 pm on Jul 14, 2018

Could we all be over-complicating this pic/text. To me there are lots of clues that point to the island containing the motor racing circuit. I am especially draw to some of the text.

"Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out."

To me this is all pointing towards a white stone on the race track that is 12 paces from the west side of the track to the south. As many racing fans know race tracks usually have red/white kerb stones at corners. Maybe the casque is buried beneath one of these or perhaps this white stone/kerb is a marker to the other marker which appears to be a solitary tree.

There also looks to be other textual references to the track... "Lane Two twenty two" suggests multiple cars are trying to overtake and "You'll see an arc of lights"could point towards the start light which are normally very abundant. "Get permission to dig out" as this is on private property and thus it is obvious who owns the race track. The words "dig out" could mean that as I alluded to earlier that it is beneath a white curb stone.

Perhaps this is the one that Byron expected everyone to find quickly. It is also noted that the track is placed in the hat, lots of chequered flags are in the drawing.

Just a thought that might guide someone to the solution.

Delilah said

at 8:20 pm on Sep 17, 2018

Hi, detective Delilah (unfortunately no longer in Montreal) here again with a stupid yet worth to mention detail which could be included in the wiki (already posted this on Q4T):
Don't you think there is a surprising similarity between these two guys?

Well, meet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Macdonald, Canada's prime minister between 1867–1873, 1878–1891, also well known because he was on 10 dollars banknotes, also in the 80's...
Of course, it's in "gnomified" version, but that peculiar nose shape, the unkempt hair, the puffy eyelids (in other pics this trait is more evident).


What do you think?

Anthony Beausejour said

at 7:58 pm on Oct 9, 2018

Guys, I don't think anyone ever raised this on image 9. Just beneath the left hair curl, in EF3, there is some sort of animal face, like that of a gorilla. It may be a gargoyle.

Anthony Beausejour said

at 8:33 pm on Oct 9, 2018

Another clue that points to Montreal being linked to image 9 is the book itself. On pages 13-14, the Dutch immigration reference is clearly made to the Lowlands: these people sailed in a "wide river". As a matter of fact, the Saint Lawrence River, which leads to Montreal, is the widest river in North America. See the passage below:

"The venerable Dutch merchant empire of the Lowland Alven was also in its autumn. Their servants, the Klabautermannikins, made ready their broad-bottomed boats, and away they sailed, to settle peaceably, at length, among rolling hills by a wide river richly lined with cliffs and trees. Clear, running creeks found there, and wildcats in abundance, wherefore they named their new home "Kaaterskill" (Wildcat Creek)"

Anthony Beausejour said

at 5:24 pm on Oct 10, 2018

Also, the lighter spot on the right part of the background (where some people seem to read the word "Fée") resembles more the word "Peel": there is a Peel Street just beside the legeater dog in the Golden Square Mile.

Brad said

at 10:59 am on Oct 28, 2018

A couple of thoughts:
1. The Beret ripple is the NW edge of the Golden Square Mile. The area encompasses the hospital, Cedar Ave (Inlcuding the clearing in the tress in the park- the double bump) and on to Redpath Crs. Suggesting that Golden Square Mile is the location? There is a hill around the clearing on Cedar Ave if people are looking for a hill to stand on to look out.
2. The runes are most likely Wunjo and Lagaz as suggested. Runes are Germanic and would fit with the Nederlands theme. However, There is a rune that has not been read- Gifu 'X". In bindrunes, runes are brought together to form a single design (not really like this, but similar enough. That idea would account for Lagaz being mirrored, as bindrunes contain runes in any direction etc to "be aesthetically pleasing" (A racical Guide to the Runes- Lisa Peschel). Therefore, the runes would be WGL (nothing comes of this acronymn though. Bindrunes contain a base "central" rune on which the rest are hung. In this case, it would be GWL (or Great West Life), the HQ of which is roughly in the same place as the image (shown Citadel Salvation Army on the map that is shown corresponding with the collar detail image). GWL has been around for 125 years, so wuld have been there in 1980's.
Hope that helps.

Delilah said

at 10:52 pm on Oct 28, 2018

Awesome, Brad! I find the Golden Square Mile shape incredibly accurate! Good catch! Can't say anything about GWL, but still everything points out to the golden square mile. (Also maybe all the little golden checkers, which are little squares indeed!)
Keep it up with the good job!

Brad said

at 2:07 am on Nov 18, 2018

Any thoughts on this being related to the hatching on the coat, above the steps, but below the white collar?
This is an aerial from the top of Mount Royal. If the front of the coat was the Golden Square Mile, then could this be the cemetary above?
Would Preiss have had access to at leas a map of the cemetary showing the rows?

Burbank_ian said

at 11:33 pm on Jun 4, 2019

Having never looked at this image but receiving the emails when updates take place, I thought I'd look at the crossed fingers. To me when first looking at them they looked like a spiral staircase. After a quick look online it seems that Montreals spiral staircases are quite the feature and some quoting the staircases as a symbol that best represents Montreal. So maybe, the fingers are another city confirmer?

Quite a good article about the staircases and their history to the city:

Oregonian said

at 8:44 am on Jun 5, 2019

That's a great connection! I'd never heard of those outdoor staircases, but the article makes a good case for them being iconic in Montreal. This is definitely worth investigating.

Do we have any locals on the wiki? I'd be very curious to know if there are any of those staircases in the area of Notre-Dame Basilica and the Aldred Building in Old Montreal.

Oregonian said

at 9:32 am on Jun 6, 2019

Folks, I am increasingly open to the idea that the lamps outside the Mount Stephen Club are a complete wrong turn. There's just absolutely nothing else in that area or on Drummond Street that would match up with the puzzle, and the feature is way too small to be a general clue to Montreal. If I had to bet on it right now, I'd guess that Preiss never even saw the lamps on Drummond Street. Instead, there must have been another set of similar lamps outside a different building, probably in Old Montreal. That style of lamp was once very common in the New York / Ontario area.

Check out this view of the lamps on the north side of the Notre-Dame Basilica, along St. Sulpice Street: https://goo.gl/maps/7Y6ZDemnottrwC5BA Those lamps don't have the "legeater dog" feature, but they're similar, and they're still in place because the basilica is a historic site. I'm guessing that the lamps we were really meant to find were in front of some other building that was torn down sometime after 1980. But I don't know how we would go about proving that.

Agnes said

at 1:47 pm on Jun 12, 2019

Dear All,
I’m new here.
I started working with puzzles. I’ve collected what I’ve found in pictures 9 and 12 and uploaded to the Wiki. I hope the ideas will be useful for local seekers.

Brad said

at 8:30 am on Jun 16, 2019

Hey all, stumbled across this idea for the hand gesture while doing research on Pinterest. Yeah... research...
There is a hand gesture within the Greek Orthodox church used in the Icons that has religious significance, in particular that the fingers spell the first and last letters of Jesus (IHCOYC) Christ (XPICTOC) i.e. ICXC when spelled out as such. Some sources say it's spelled out in the English alphabet (which makes it dubious in my mind...) Either way... the hand gesture is very common in the icons, and has religious significance.
It's ALMOST the same as the Right hand of the figure. The exception being that the ring and little fingers do not cross in our image. This may be a line to follow, as the gesture shown may have some significance in the Greek Orthodox church. My knowledge of the church is limited to me designing a church a few years back, so I can't go too deeply into the iconography. Maybe someone else knows?
Source: https://aleteia.org/2016/06/12/what-do-hand-gestures-in-icons-mean/
Alternatively, it could come from the Roman orator's hand gestures, particularly one meaning "expressing wonder or amazement"
Source: http://www.romanmysteries.com/sites/romanmysteries.com/files/cms_images/gesturesoftheorator.jpg
Maybe it's some hybridisation based on the same process of the fingers spelling out a word. Top to bottom, X ^ (Chi, Lambda) or front to back Lambda Chi. Maybe a fraternity? Lambda Chi Alpha were at McGill Campus until 2011. McGill Campus is on the edge of the Golden Square Mile, just below Mt Montreal.

Oregonian said

at 10:25 am on Jun 17, 2019

The religious icon interpretation of the hand position has come up a few times and I think it has merit. The question is: what are we supposed to do with it? The rules for the puzzles specifically rule out any casque in a cemetery, but is it possible that the casque is buried on church property of some other kind? (If so, it would certainly explain the bit in Verse 5 about getting permission to dig it out.) The satellite views of the Basilica de Notre Dame show some sort of park-like courtyard beside it. The area is enclosed by the buildings on that block, so we don't have Google Street View to help us. Does anyone have any ground-level photos of that space?

Oregonian said

at 12:02 pm on Jun 17, 2019

I'm hesitant to go down this rabbit hole (truly) but there's one connection here that's just too interesting to ignore.

The "Christ Pantocrator of St. Catherine’s Monastery at Sinai" is a religious icon from the 6th century AD. It shows a figure (presumably Jesus) wearing a black robe in front of a gray-black background and making a sign with the fingers of his right hand. At first glance it looks like a truly awful painting, because the neckline of the robe and the two sides of the man's face are not symmetrical. But many scholars have pointed out that putting a mirror to each half of the painting creates two different mirrored composite images that are much more realistic and life-like. And that, of course, is exactly what we see above in Image 9. The fact that both painting include the hand gestures, the necklines of the robes, and even the arched eyebrow on one side of the face makes me wonder if this is more than a coincidence. Maybe the painting at St. Catherine's is what gave Preiss and/or Palencar the idea for a split figure?

Kang said

at 1:56 pm on Jun 17, 2019

"Christ Pantocrator of St. Catherine’s Monastery at Sinai"
- Or could perhaps be a clue that Saint-Catherine Street West runs smack through the Golden Square Mile. Intersects both Peel St and Drummond St (the latter a half a block from the Mt Stephens Club where the Legeater lamp is....

Brad said

at 7:03 pm on Jun 17, 2019

Any artist who has done any study or can actually paint, and has painted a few things is most likely aware of a lot of things. Even people without formal training trawl Pinterest for "ideas" (every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief, they'd kill for their inspiration.- U2), and in the past, you would just buy books, or have them bought for you. Most of us will have a universal history of art book, and these books are often thumbed through until something sticks or sparks inspiration. I would assume Palencar had an exposure to Iconography, and even to this concept. Da Vinci in the Mona Lisa used a technique called Sfumato (google search it and the ML is the example image), where the Left eye image was painted to the painting's left, and the right eye image painted to the right, so painting separate images left and right is not unusual, unknown or obscure. We should assume the asymmetry is purposeful, even if Palencar was not aware of Christ Pantocrator.

Brad said

at 6:57 pm on Jun 17, 2019

We could look at 2 things- 1. the "meaning" of the gesture, and; 2. the structure of the gesture.
The "meaning as per the Roman Orator link above could be "an expression of wonder or amazement". Orators would make this gesture when they were saying something that should illicit wonder or amazement ("hey, Jesus just made wine from water... pretty amazeballs, yeah?" <insert gesture here>) Maybe we are supposed to be looking in or around something that would illicit a sense of amazement in us, such as a beautiful view, a giant monument, or a plaque with a quote of great revelation.
The structure of the ring finger-to-thumb gesture is one that creates Greek letters. It is done with one hand (not 2), so ours is not exactly the same. However, the hands could be making a new structure based around the same concept. if you look at the index fingers, together they make an X, if you look at the R hand middle finger, it makes a chevron (upturned V), or Lambda in Greek. It could be the house of a Lambda Chi chapter (there was one in Montreal during the 80s). Or, it could be something like the first and last letters of a word, like L_ate_X. But I think it's moving too many steps away when we're going that deep. I still prefer the simple answers.
OR... it could be a combination of the two, where we're supposed to revel at the wonder of something that has to do with the structure of the fingers.
I would highly doubt that it's on church grounds. Preiss would have had to ask permission to drop it off, if expected us to ask permission. I don't think that is the best interpretation of that line though. If he asked someone permission to bury something, that person would be in on the hunt/ joke, and would create a weak point in the security. I think it's more likely a figurative asking of permission of something, like pagans would ask permission or give thanks to trees they would chop down for religious reasons (such as making runes).

Oregonian said

at 9:48 am on Jun 18, 2019

The "permission" bit could definitely be figurative, but then why Montreal? It would seem more appropriate for something like St. Augustine, as a hint that the casque is on private property and maybe as a nod to the Native Americans who lived there for thousands of years.

And, while I agree it's unlikely, I wouldn't completely write off the idea that some figure in Montreal knew about the casque and waited patiently over decades for someone to come and claim it. A person like that would need to have self-discipline... the ability to stay silent for long periods of time... the ability to keep a vow. So it's intriguing that the bit in Verse 5 about asking permission comes right after the lines that spell out "ABBOT." Hmm...

Kang said

at 11:41 am on Jun 18, 2019

Abbot. Permission. MISSION. Hmm...

Indigoone said

at 9:07 pm on Jun 17, 2019

I know it's out of context, but something I keep noticing even reading about Dutch immigration is that Montreal is never really cited. Mainly Ontario and Alberta. Has anyone ever found any evidence in their research that Montreal was a major point of immigration? I was reading on this site recently.


wildshadow20@hotmail.com said

at 7:27 pm on Jul 21, 2019

Hello. New at this, but i hope to be of some help ! What first hooked me was Josh gate's documentary on the subject. I have been reading a lot since and finally, yesterday, me and a friend went over to Ste-Helene island to look up some stuff and information. I don't think we found anything really new, except maybe a set of stairs (5 steps each) a stone throw away from the white rock that have previously been talked about. (Pretty much like the stairs on image #9 i think)


And right in the middle of these stairs is a compass (Rose des vents)


Some have suggest the casket could be buried 12 paces from the white rock, but the way i read the verses, i understand that the casket would be buried 12 paces from a tree, closest to a white rock ? That would be the tree right behind my daughter standing on the white rock in the fallowing pictures. But i might be wrong, (most likely), English is my 2nd language and i'm not an expert at it.

I plan on going back either this week or next weekend with a few tools to validate a few things.

Oregonian said

at 8:27 am on Jul 22, 2019

Somehow, until I saw these pictures I hadn't realized that the compass rose on Ste Helene island uses an O instead of a W for the western direction. But, of course, it makes sense. (I still remember enough of my high school French to know that Ouest = West.) It would have been a really clever clue towards Montreal if Preiss had included that O somehow in the puzzle, but I'm not seeing any connection.

The main thing that keeps me from accepting this as the spot is the number of trees. The verse talks about "the only standing member of a forest," but the photos always seem to show a lot of trees around there. Is one tree noticeably older than the others? Could the other trees be fast-growing species that were much smaller in 1980?

wildshadow20@hotmail.com said

at 7:28 pm on Jul 21, 2019

Here is the picture of the tree behind the white rock


Oregonian said

at 9:13 am on Jul 22, 2019

Thanks for all the pictures!

If you make another trip to the island, here's what I would like to know:
- Is there any tree that could be twelve (big or small) paces eastwards from the east side of the stone?
- If so, what kind of tree is it? (If you don't know, just take some good photos of the leaves and we should be able to figure it out.)
- How close are the tree roots to the surface? Do the roots spread outwards or do they go more straight down into the ground?

I'm guessing that this will be a situation like the New York City puzzle, where roots have spread to enclose the casque and ordinary shovels won't work. If the casque is really at the base of a tree, we'll need to use an Air Spade. "Get permission" indeed...

wildshadow20@hotmail.com said

at 1:31 am on Jul 23, 2019

I can sure do that. Do we know when the casket was buried exactly ? Because i came upon this picture and all the tip of the south shore was paved with a road... I highly doubt he would have buried it next to that...


It's dated from the 21st of august 1980. We are still looking from more pictures in the Montréal archives from that time. In 1991-1992, there was some major excavation work going on in that area.

Honestly, the more i look at this, the more i doubt this is the spot. Never the less, we still have some ideas to look into :)

Oregonian said

at 9:47 am on Jul 23, 2019

WOW!!! What a great find! That's one of the biggest contributions to this wiki in quite a long time.

I agree with you that this makes the southern tip of the island less likely, but it certainly doesn't rule it out and – in some ways – it makes the clues a better fit. The big question is whether the white rock was there in 1980. If it wasn't, then this spot is definitely wrong.

But IF the casque is really at the southern tip of the island...
- This explains why there wasn't any clue about "O" for "west" (because the compass rose wasn't even there).
- This also explains why Preiss was so careless about the direction of the paces. Obviously we can't go 12 paces west of the stone and dig in a paved street, so the stone itself is 12 paces west of the hiding spot.

When I look at this picture I see a dark blue box (probably a tour bus) parked at the tip of the island. To the right of the bus are the steps coming down from the little hill. Above and behind the bus I see a white line that might be a sidewalk. Can you tell where the sidewalk would have been? Could it have met the road right beside the white rock? That's my main question right now.

wildshadow20@hotmail.com said

at 11:45 am on Jul 23, 2019

Hard to say. That area is all fenced up at the moment. I think they are making some excavation work right there. And it's completely different right now. No more paved road, more trees all around. IF the casket was there, its probably lost, or have been dig up. But i will go take a few more pictures. The fence is not that high and almost nobody goes at that part of the island.

Now regarding the 12 paces, the way i interpreted it is that it's 12 paces from the tree that is closest to the white rock/stone. but like you said, there are many trees... If he meant more then one tree, there would have been an s at member... There was no trees at all there in 1967. They came later, most likely a little before 1980 for the floralies... Also, what could be considered the last standing member of a forest ? A tree ? An animal ? Could it be a statue or drawing/painting representing that ?

Oregonian said

at 9:38 pm on Aug 26, 2019

Hi, folks! I don't have time to work on this at all right now, but a reader in Montreal has made an interesting suggestion. Maybe the shape formed by the man's fingers in Image 9 is actually a reference to the gigantic Alexander Calder sculpture called "L'homme" (The Man) that was built for the World's Fair in 1967. The sculpture is formed from several arches and points, similar to the way the man's fingers form arches and peaks. At the time Preiss visited in 1980 or 1981, the sculpture was still in its original position near the southern tip of Saint Helene's Island, right along the route proposed on the Verse 5 page. You can see photos of the Calder sculpture here: https://artsology.com/calder_sculpture.php

One thing that makes this seem very possible to me is that Calder welded his initials onto the sculpture to sign it and he also added the number "67" to indicate the date. The "7" has a line across it, making it match one of the sevens formed in the flower in Image 9. That seems like too much to be a coincidence. Anyway, this seems like a very strong find, so give "Marc in Montreal" the credit for it.

Freeki said

at 8:02 pm on Sep 10, 2019

I know that Dominion Square(Dorchester Square + Place du Canada) was renovated but did they really dig? its almost the same as the old square. https://imgshare.io/image/IhjRO
Ive always try to look for a spot with a connection to the Netherlands Dorchester Square has the Boer memorial but also the painting itself is from the number 1 baroque painter Rembrandt(should we need to look for buildings in that style?Those buildings are at Dorchester Square!)Also Dorchester Square is in the golden square and Place du Canada just outside.

But there is another huge connection Cornelis Lely the man who reclaimed land from the sea(Flevoland, first inhabitants 1967 and officially a township in 1 januari 1980) just like Notre Dame Island and a big part of Saint Helen's Island, he also was governor of Suriname.

Freeki said

at 7:36 pm on Oct 25, 2019

Royal Montreal Golf Club, The Club's first course was a 9-hole layout on Fletcher's Field in Mount Royal Park.

In 1878, Montreal's Crystal Palace was relocated to Fletcher's Field. The structure was destroyed by fire in July 1896. In 1879, Fletcher's Field was identified by the Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain as a notable source of Hyoscyamus niger, a psychoactive plant.

Just google Hyoscyamus nige and history of golf.

Baraka said

at 5:58 pm on Jan 5, 2020

I did some exploring on my own to satisfy some photo requests as well as satisfying my curiosity. As I came back, I stumble of some aerial pictures of the southern tip of Sainte-Helene Island showing the "Place des Nations" in April 1986. " http:////depot.ville.montreal.qc.ca/vues-aeriennes-obliques-1960-1969/VM94-B261-001.tif " It sadly shows, no white rock, no compass, no stairs, i.e. none of the very interesting things that WildShadow20 found last summer.... However, I am still a believer that the casque has hidden somewhere in Parc Jean-Drapeau (Sainte-Helene and Notre-Dame Islands)

wildshadow20@hotmail.com said

at 6:32 pm on Jul 26, 2020

It's what i have been looking for, for a while now. A clear picture of the area around that time. Thanks for the info. It pretty much rules out the southern type of the island. And like you, i believe it could be buried on Notre-Dame Island. There or on Mount-Royal.

Baraka said

at 5:15 pm on Jan 11, 2021

The Montreal Secret searchers are in need of your help. We want the Montreal Park Authorities to implement a program similar to the one of the San Francisco Park Authorities in order to accept, consider and approve dig requests. There are many good solves for the Montreal's Casque that cannot be "completed" since no dig requests are even considered at this point. We need your signatures on this petition https://www.change.org/TheSecret_Allow_Dig_Request_in_Montreal as a gesture of support of the Montreal Secret searchers. Thanks in advance for your support.

John Murray said

at 7:42 pm on Jan 11, 2021

Hello Baraka I have downloaded my solution to Montreal I think you will find is fits quite well.

KJRP said

at 10:12 pm on Jan 11, 2021

Where can we find it to peruse?

Baraka said

at 11:58 pm on Jan 11, 2021

Hi John, Your solution is matching image 09 with verse 02 which is quite not classical. Verse 2 is deemed to be paired with New Orleans. But until someone finds the casque, no one can say they are right or wrong for sure. You found that there was major work done on the plaza of Place Ville-Marie in 2018, there was also extensive work done on the plaza in the late 1990s. I do agree that, if the casque was buried at the plaza, it is gone by now. However, I do believe that the Montreal Casque can be found using image 9 and verse 5 as commonly agreed upon and that it was not buried at Place Ville-Marie and it is still retrievable. In the flower, we can see the numbers 7 6 and 7. They could represent 76, 67 and 767. In 1980, if I recall correctly, the restaurant located at the top of Place Ville-Marie was named "The 767"... You have some interesting interpretation of image hints, such as the nose of the character representing the domes on the Marie-Reine Cathedral. There are some good ideas in there. I would really appreciate it if you can support my initiative and add your signature on the petition. And if after many digs, the casque is still missing, then your solution becomes more attractive.

John Murray said

at 1:17 pm on Jan 22, 2021

Hi Baraka
Are you from Montreal?
I could share more with you personally to your email if you like

John Murray said

at 5:06 pm on Jan 12, 2021

Hi Baraka, I know many feel that verse 02 should be associated to New Orleans but I was born and raised in Montreal.
Back in 1980 we had a referendum to gain sovereignty over Canada. This is why I truly feel that verse 02 should be marched with image 09.

I have also worked on image 07 with verse 05 and believe I have a solution that works quite well. I hope to attempt to dig there this year once Covid restrictions are lifted.

Limey said

at 9:58 am on Jan 8, 2023

Some observations on Image 9:
The ruffled part of the beret may be an interpretation of Rembrandt’s 1654 painting ‘Landscape with cottages’, which was stolen in the 1972 Montreal Museum of Fine Arts robbery. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/151672875/image_9_beret_and_rembrandt.jpg
(notice the flick of hair on image 9 matches the tree in the painting).
The face is a good caricature match of Sir John A. Macdonald, Canada’s first prime minister (noted by Sabrina X, YouTube) and was on the $10 bill throughout the 1970’s/1980’s. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/151672881/image_9_sir_john_macdonald.png
I think that the square at H7 refers to Pie-IX Boulevard which is a major road running from Laval across into Montreal. It runs straight past the Olympic Stadium (‘76’) to a major crossroads with Rue Sherbrooke E. (could be the highlighted ‘X’). Rue Sherbrooke runs south into the main areas of interest. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/151672884/Image9_pie-IX_marked.jpg
The flower at I4 seems to contain the key dates for Montreal – ’67 (Expo 67) & ’76 (Montréal Olympics). http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/151672887/Image9_calendula.jpg
The black blocks in the ‘legeater’ square at I7 is actually an addition to the original painting and is covering a fleur de Lys (the symbol on the flag of Quebec).
I took this image from my TV during one of the Expedition Unknown “The Secret” episodes, of the original John Palencar painting. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/151672890/image9_original.JPG

Limey said

at 9:59 am on Jan 8, 2023

The George Stephen House appears to have three image matches – legeater, fleur de Lys (on the railings) and the flower pattern (circled in this image). http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/151672893/image_9_george_stephen_house_flower.jpg
A similar pattern can be seen on the Mount Royal Chalet glass panels above the doors. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/151672899/Mount_Royal_Chalet_Montreal.jpg
The clasped hands and the chequered sleeves are a close match to the Christ Church Cathedral (noted by a Rick Spero YouTube comment), and which is about 6 blocks from George Stephen House - especially the chequered floor inside which is the same colour as image 9 and is five squares wide (the same as each sleeve). http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/151672902/image_9_clasped_hands.jpg

Limey said

at 10:11 am on Jan 8, 2023

BTW, Sabina X makes a good case for Verse 8 being the match for Image 9, especially Mitchell building, Beating of the World, Step on nature cast in copper and Woman playing harpsichord. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnA3YeHL8Ss

Fandango said

at 4:22 am on Feb 25, 2023

I think the face in the picture is a very stylised version of a formula 1 race car. The bulbous tip of the nose is the front cone. The 2 nostrils are the front wheels. The mouth is the front wing. The long bridge is showing the long central part of the car. The eyes symbolise the back wheels and the thick brow is the rear wing.

Another nod towards Villeneuve race track.

Limey said

at 8:20 am on Mar 25, 2023

It’s curious that the leg and hoof of the ‘legeater’ in image 09 is shown outside the square. I think that this is the casque location clue – the hoof is the white stone on St. Helen’s Island, the leg is the tree closest to it and the square is the square shape of The Place des Nations Expo 67 pavilion. When the stone and tree are viewed in line with each other, they look very similar to the hoof and leg in the painting. They also line up with the south west corner of The Place des Nations pavilion which I think is a possible casque site.

Percy Walters said

at 4:08 am on Jun 8, 2023

I think this one might be pretty easy compared to most but I could be wrong on that assessment, I think the ask for permission to dig part has thrown a lot of people off. I don't see anything different from a park in Montreal than to the other locations.

KJRP said

at 11:20 pm on Mar 3, 2024

Some food for thought: https://youtu.be/k-CHu44IhJQ

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