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The Secret (a treasure hunt) / Verse 07
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Verse 07

Page history last edited by Oregonian 1 month, 2 weeks ago

General notes on Verse 7




Lines Interpretation(s)

At stone wall's door

The air smells sweet

- The "stone wall's door" could refer to the wall at the Garden of Shakespeare's Flowers.  The alcove in the middle of the wall contains a rare bust of William Shakespeare, and so there are sturdy doors that can be closed to protect it.  The alcove is a reasonable match for the barred window at the top of Image 1.


Shakespeare bust photo used under a creative common license
Attribution Some rights reserved by joshleejosh on Flickr


- Flanking the bust on both sides are 6 bronze plaques that list all of the plant-related quotations from Shakespeare's works.  The "sweet smell" could simply refer to the famous line from Romeo and Juliet: "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."  It's very possible that Preiss is deliberately prompting us to think of that line by including a rose in Image 1.


- "Sweet smell" could also refer to either the Golden Gate Park Rose Garden or to the San Francisco Botanical Garden's Garden of Fragrance.  Both are east of Highway 1 near Stow Lake.


- Alternatively, the "sweet smell" could be a reference to the Spreckels Temple of Music which is just across the street from the Shakespeare garden and is named after sugar mogul Claus Spreckels.


- Another interpretation of the "Sweet smell" could be associated to Golden Gate Park Strawberry Hill. The Hill got its named from the fact that a lot of Strawberries were growing on its side, which gave a sweet scent. (source: Official Golden Gate website): 


Not far away

High posts are three

- This would likely be a reference to the Sutro Tower.  According to Wikipedia, it's "a three-pronged antenna tower near Clarendon Heights in San Francisco" that is "a prominent part of the city skyline and a landmark for city residents and visitors."  The tower is located only a few blocks away from the southeast corner of the park and is visible from the rose garden, the botanical garden, and Stow Lake.


Photo by Christopher Michel from San Francisco, USA, licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic license.


Note that the water in the center of the photo above is the Twin Peaks Reservoir that provides water for firefighting in the event of another major San Francisco earthquake.  The reservoir has the distinctive shape of an oval with a line across it.  (The wall in the middle of the oval divides the reservoir into two separate tanks, to improve the chance that some water will be retained even if a quake destroys some pipes.)  The shape of an oval with a line across it appears at the bottom of the woman's dress in Image 1.


Education and Justice

For all to see

- It's possible that "Education" and "Justice" are Chinese characters that appear on the Chinese pavilion on Stow Lake.  (To see the inscriptions, visit Yagi_94118's Flickr photostream.)


- Alternatively, "Education" could refer to the University of San Francisco at the northeast corner of Golden Gate Park.


- "Justice" could refer to Alcatraz.


- The two roads that pass under Highway 1 in the park are "John F. Kennedy Drive" (formerly "North Drive") and "Martin Luther King Jr. Drive" (formerly "South Drive").  Of the two modern names, only "Kennedy Drive" could be related to The Secret.  North Drive got its new name in 1967, but South Drive wasn't renamed until 1983.


Sounds from the sky

Near ace is high

Running north, but first across

- "Ace is high" could refer to Highway 1.  "Ace" would mean "one" and "high" would mean both "highway" and literally "high" (because Highway 1 is elevated where it goes through Golden Gate Park).  "Sounds from the sky" would match this interpretation because Hwy. 1 is a six-lane highway and a person standing nearby in Golden Gate Park will hear the roar of traffic from above.


- Highway 1 runs north through most of San Francisco, but at Golden Gate Park it turns and runs due east (across) for a few blocks before turning north again to go to the Golden Gate Bridge.  At the point where the highway turns there is a large stone cross called the "Prayer Book Cross." The line could be a play on words meaning a) the highway running across the park, b) the highway turning to run across San Francisco, and c) the presence there of the stone cross ("but first, a cross").  The USGS topo map (shown below) simply identifies the Prayer Book Cross with the word "cross" appearing below the east-west stretch of Highway 1.



In jewel's direction

Is an object

Of Twain's attention

- "Twain" is probably a reference to Mark Twain, who worked as a newspaper reporter in San Francisco from 1864 to 1865.  No direct connection has yet been found between Twain and Golden Gate Park, but Twain did make at least one trip to Cliff House, which is just a few blocks away. Twain wrote about his visit in "Early Rising, As Regards Excursions to the Cliff House," which was published in The Golden Era magazine in 1864.


- Mark Twain also wrote a little-remembered book about William Shakespeare.  The "object of Twain's attention" could therefore be the same Garden of Shakespeare's Flowers that is mentioned above. 


- The "object of Twain's attention" could also be the side-wheel paddle steamboat Eureka, which is part of the San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park at Hyde Pier.


-  The "object of Twain's attention" could also refer to Fulton Street, alongside the Golden Gate Park on its north side. Fulton was an engineer credited for the first commercially successful steamboat. Twain was vice-president of the Fulton Monument Association, whose purpose was to build a Robert Fulton monument in NYC.


- Another possible object - Golden Gate Park has an additional piece going east called the Panhandle. At the easternmost point of the Panhandle is a statute to William McKinley.  Twain was a vociferous opponent of McKinley over the issue of Imperialism especially in the Philippines, which was started by the McKinley administration and famously opposed by Twain.


Giant pole

Giant step

To the place

The casque is kept.

- The "giant pole" could be the β€œGoddess of the Forest,” a giant wooden sculpture carved out of the single trunk of a redwood tree during the 1939/40 World's Fair in San Francisco.  The sculpture was erected in Lindley Meadow in Golden Gate Park and stood there until the summer of 1986, when it had to be removed because of weather-related decomposition.  The cement base that supported the sculpture is still there in the park, where the 30th Avenue entrance meets JFK Drive (map view, tilt view, street view).  One searcher in 2008 dug all around the base but didn't find anything.


- Alternatively, the "giant pole" could be the 60-foot-tall totem pole at Cliff House.  


- A third possibility is that the "giant pole" is one of the long metal handrails that run up the staircases in the park.


- The repetition of "Giant" could be a playful reference to the city's baseball team, the San Francisco Giants.





Other Notes:

  • This verse appears to be describing various landmarks in or near Golden Gate Park.  "Giant step," however, is very vague for a final approach to the destination. The specifics of where to dig for the casque are probably hidden in Image 1.
  • "The air smells sweet" would be almost meaningless as a general reference to flowers.  However, the Garden of Fragrance was designed in 1965 specifically as a garden for the visually impaired.  The plants were chosen specifically for their smells and textures.
  • The choice of the word "sweet" (rather than "fragrant") might suggest that the smell is coming from a candy factory or sweet shop.  The only candidate match that has been identified so far is Ghirardelli Chocolate in San Francisco.
  • The repetition of "Giant" at the end of the verse is likely a reference to the San Francisco Giants, the city's baseball team.  At the time The Secret was published, the Giants were playing at Candlestick Park in the far southeast corner of San Francisco County.  (They moved to AT&T Park in 2000.)
  • Apart from the first word in every line, only two words are capitalized in this verse: Twain and Justice.  "Twain" is almost certainly used here as the name of a person, but why is "Justice" capitalized? 




Comments (113)

ash simmonds said

at 11:11 am on Dec 7, 2015

I've been looking at this verse for a few days now, and with the picture think the casque could possibly be in the music concourse of golden gate park. Being from England though I am relying on Google maps and the Internet for information, so would need a few people with local knowledge to help disprove my idea.

I started out with quite a complicated outcome but have sinced simplified it to what I have now. all have led me to the concourse though.

I think we can all agree the image leads us to San Fransico, what with the theme, co ordinates etc. Somethings I think are important that I haven't seen picked up a lot are: the 11 moons. How the woman's arms are crossed. The rose. And the hole in the rock at G3, above JFKs face (not Lincoln). With these in mind here's the verse broken down.

Line 1&2. Stone wall door is the door in Shakespeare's garden. This is confirmed by "the air smells sweet". Add the image of the rose you have a quote from Romeo and Juliet. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet". Could link to sounds from the sky, but that's circumstantial. (As Juliet says this from a balcony)

Line 3&4 link to the sutro space tower, just over a mile away with three posts on top.

Here's a jump I'm not sure on so input would be great. Education and justice I think could
Mean the Goethe Shiller statue. Looking at the statue you'd have Sutro tower behind it. Goethe was a lawyer early in his career and Shiller wrote some history books, plus his plays are studied. Bit of a long shot.

Sounds from sky I have nothing on, except perhaps the music that could fill the concourse if a shows on.

Near ace is high i think means King. As if ace is high in cards the next nearest is the King. The center pathway through the music concourse was originally called "kings drive". It runs north easterly. Possibly referring too runs north but first across.

run out of words so will do part 2 as reply.

ash simmonds said

at 11:27 am on Dec 7, 2015

In jewels direction is westerly as per image being map of park, and this will take your eyes generally over the Shakespeare garden which is twains attention.

Need more help here as too wether there's any historical information about the park on location. The giant pole mentioned could refer to the tower originally standing at the center of the concourse for the winter fair held there. It was demolished in late 1800's, but could there be a plaque mentioning it?

Giant step. I've taken this as possibly referring to miles Davis, to back up the music concourse theory.

The actual location is in the picture I think. The 11 moons, the woman's crossed arms and the blue silloette all point to this conclusion.

11 moons brings up images of Apollo 11. Cut the 11 out you have Apollo. The Greco/Roman god. Then how the woman's arms are crossed in a "Roman handshake". The only Roman thing I could find in the park is the statue of a gladiator on the north west corner of the concourse.

Look at the statue on Google maps. It's silloette is very similar to the break in the rocks above the rose.

I think it buried directly behind the statue "on its six".

Would be interested to know what people think of this. Is it a location you can dig within the rules? Was it in the 80's?

Unfortunately the park was renovated in 2005 so it's possible even if it was there it's gone now.

Sorry for any spelling, grammar or formatting errors. Did this from my phone. Look forward to some opinons.

ack said

at 2:46 pm on Dec 7, 2015

Has anybody thought that "justice for all" could be related to the pledge of allegiance? It's the final sentence, but I haven't made any connection to the park...

ash simmonds said

at 3:13 pm on Dec 7, 2015

President Benjamin Harrison approved the Pledge of Allegiance in 1892. It's a long shot but apparently, Golden gate park is home to a heard of Bison. The original Bison was called Ben Harrison, after "It's political contemporary".

Dane said

at 7:04 pm on Dec 7, 2015

Awesome thoughts ash, I myself have had some of the same ideas and will offer up my partial solution.

Line 1/2 I agree to begin at the Shakespeare garden. If you notice the corresponding image 1 the window within the rock is gated, much like if an observer was looking at it through the closed gate of the garden. Also there is a similar leave lattuce pattern on the pedestal as there is on the top of the shakespeare gate.

line 3/4 is absolutely the Sutro Space Tower, which can be seen from areas in the southeast of the park, which is also the portion of the park the shakespeare garden is in.

Now if we look into the riddle, it hasn't told us to go anywhere yet, it has just told us where to start and what is nearby.
Lines 5/6 represent the California Academy of sciences, representing the word education, "Justice for all" is the final verse of the pledge of allegiance and thats based on the American flag, meaning at one time there may have been a flag out front of the building.

7/8 Sounds from the sky represent the freeway noise coming from highway 1, which runs laterally, then north directly through this portion of the park.

9/10 in the jewels direction" is referring to the side of the 1 highway that the casque is buried on, which is the east because there is no portion of highway 1 over the west, as it cuts north near the middle. Is an object of twains attention" could be a river, or i believe the shakespeare garden itself, as twain wrote much about shakespeare in an autobiography comparing the two.
11/12 Giant Pole Giant step is an allusion to the first words spoken when man walked on the moon, one small step for man one giant leap for mankind. The giant pole is the sundial placed directly in the center of the shakespeare garden. the clue is saying that we can leap to where the casque is kept.

So how do we find it? the image has the answer. This whole riddle is giving us info about things around shakespeare garden.

Bill said

at 3:50 pm on Jan 26, 2018

Note that at the time of the book, the California Academy of Sciences was Steinhart Aquarium.

Erik Scanlon said

at 8:23 pm on Jul 22, 2016

Another Shakespeare quote, which confirms Line 1/2 is the Shakespeare garden: "“Then will I raise aloft the milk-white rose, With whose sweet smell the air shall be perfumed.."

spacemunkay said

at 2:48 pm on Dec 1, 2016

Any chance that pole from "Giant pole" refers to a statue of a Polish person? Regarding "Of Twain's attention", every statue I've seen of Mark Twain has him reading a book, there's one in Berkeley.

spacemunkay said

at 8:25 pm on Dec 8, 2016

Actually, I think "Giant pole" could have be referencing the totem pole that used to be in the park. It was moved in 1985. See a photo here: http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAA-8129.jpg, with a link to the history here: http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMB4MV_Goddess_Mark_II_San_Francisco_CA. I don't know where it was located in the park.

Oregonian said

at 9:14 pm on Dec 8, 2016

See above, in the final row of the "Interpretation #1" table. The totem pole sculpture was called "Goddess of the Forest" and it was on a concrete pad in Lindley Meadow.

Years ago, a treasure hunter actually dug a deep trench all the way around the slab. (Spoiler alert: The casque wasn't there.)

spacemunkay said

at 3:41 am on Dec 9, 2016

Sorry! Not sure how I missed that it was already noted. Any clue where exactly the slab is located in Lindley Meadow? I might try looking around for it the next time I'm in the park. I'll note the coordinates if I find it. Knowing that it's not at the pole now, my guess would be that it'd be buried at least a "giant step" away. Regardless, I wouldn't feel confident digging anywhere without making sense of the remaining symbols on the dress.

Odeyin said

at 2:53 pm on Dec 9, 2016

I just looked at the totem pole and read a little about it. I totally agree that the pole is very similar to the shape and form of the image. Especially if you split the image in half and put the to left sides together. As for the fact that someone tried digging there, by the fact they have not found anything means it still might be in that area...or not, but that is the best match for image/physical item I have seen yet..in my opinion. I also agree with your giant step thought..

Odeyin said

at 4:06 pm on Dec 9, 2016

If it is there. I would guess that it is about 30 feet directly north of the foot of where the totem was. My rational for that is that my belief is the "Object of Twain's attention" is gold. (the golden gate bridge which is directly south of that spot in Lindy Meadow), and giant step. Although this could also mean half the size of the pole. I would probe both at 30 and 15 feet. The pole was 3 stories so 10 feet per story....

Odeyin said

at 4:10 pm on Dec 9, 2016


Here is the story of the guy who dug around the pole..apparently in 2008.

bf5man said

at 5:27 pm on Dec 9, 2016

spacemunkay said

at 5:34 pm on Dec 9, 2016

Thanks for the link! There was comment that helped point out where the base is, I think I found it here: https://goo.gl/WKxTnm. I had to use the 3D tilt view to see under the tree: https://goo.gl/yFE6eo. I couldn't see it from street view.

Yea, I think it'd make sense to be at height's length away given the verse. One of the linked articles on it said it was originally 26ft tall. The other images from the discovered treasures had a lot of confirmation clues, so it'd be nice to find some to have confidence before digging.

Kia said

at 12:39 pm on Jul 10, 2017

Hello! I am in San Jose and believe that the spot near the Chinese Pavilion in Golden Gate Park is where we should dig. There used to be a very tall carved pole on one side of the Pavilion. It was there when the book was published but has since been taken down. I think that the giant step should be taken from there, just next to the Pavilion. Is that where you are aiming to dig? If so, let me know when and I will come up to the City. I don't know how to post documents - sorry!

bf5man said

at 11:12 pm on Jul 10, 2017

I didn't know about a pole beside the Pavilion. It's an interesting proposition. Finding archives pictures of the pavilion has proven to be quite difficult. I've found these low resolution pictures showing the pavilion in the background, taken before 1987, but I couldn't distinguish a pole, maybe these could still be helpful to other researchers.

Source: http://www.yogichen.org/cw/cw44/bk149.html

Cori S. said

at 2:09 am on Feb 5, 2018

I'm new to the group, and wanted to say, I'm super-impressed with the different analyses put forward. I'm in SF, and it's been great to walk around town with my eyes wide open for any and everything. And to add some color of my own: I've never been a big believer in the Stow Lake idea, but I took my son out in the peddle boats today, and you can hear the cars zoom by on Hwy 1 from almost every part of the lake other than the very eastern side. Very "sounds from the sky." It's especially loud when you're out on the lake and you're floating along.

I also took some great photos of large trees on the south side of the island that look very much like the rocks in the painting. Not sure whether it means anything, but thought I'd throw it out there.

Keep sleuthing!

Samir Osman said

at 1:43 pm on Feb 13, 2018

I apologize for posting in so many different areas, but I’m trying to keep things in the appropriate threads concerning my questions/theories. My son and I are headed to The City this weekend and I want to have as much info as possible to pore over during our 5 hour flight so we can formulate a concise game plan before arriving at the park Saturday morning.

Re: “a giant step” seeming to refer to the Giants, has anyone considered the possibility of the distance from the giant pole being a baseball measurement? Eg, 90’ between bases, 60’ from the plate to the mound, ~400’ for a home run. It’s the first thing I thought when I making the Giants connection.

Thanks in advance!

Joecool said

at 7:12 pm on Feb 23, 2018

My first thought when I read "a Giant pole...a Giant step" is that a Giant's pole in SF is a Candlestick, but that would mean moving the search to an entirely different part of the City. However, I like your thought of baseball measurements.

Joecool said

at 7:24 pm on Feb 23, 2018

BTW, on page 89 of the Secret book there is a photo of Monte Irvin wearing a SF Giants hat. He never played in SF, only NY before the Giants moved west. Maybe Preiss was a baseball fan?

Linda S said

at 3:12 pm on Mar 2, 2018

may I ask how many stairs are there? and is there a platform stair? I just noticed her fingers are making 37.

Chris Marvin said

at 3:50 pm on Mar 2, 2018

Hi Linda, there are 24 total. 13 on the bottom section, then a 4' platform step then 11 more to the top.

Chris Marvin said

at 11:06 pm on Mar 2, 2018

The kids and I spent about an hour up at the Cross. We looked at the start of the Rainbow Falls and saw the rocks the could represent the dragon teeth. The area up there is just such a large area. The dense grass and thick shrubs now cover the ground surrounding the huge concrete pad under the cross. You would have to know exactly where that Survey point is because if not, it would take days if not weeks to find. That is, if it is at ground level. In my opinion, there is no "aha image" unless it is the Cross itself and then where do begin to dig? At 6 o'clock? The 3 o'clock shadow? How far? I cancelled my dig permit at the Cross for these exact reasons. I see everything Linda is pointing out but just too ambiguous, for me at least. Linda, go online and search Prayer Cross Videos. Watch a few and you will see just how huge the area is. If Zook can find that marker then at least it will limit your search area. Just my two cents. Best of luck.

zook said

at 8:05 pm on Mar 8, 2018

Do you really think that looking at the picture this closely helps? Two casque were found without high res pictures or photo shop. I think press is showing as much as is needed, we're just failing miserably at putting these clues together.

zook said

at 10:51 pm on Mar 8, 2018

If you found an exact match to an image in the painting, a not very big object, but an important one, do you think that would be the place to dig? I mean some painted objects loom photographic, and finding those images are important. Would you dig there?

JulieM said

at 11:19 pm on Mar 8, 2018

Does it make sense, does it coincide with any other clue? One thing I have noticed is that there are certain images that appear all over the park, like spheres, stone walls and spirals, so if you found something that isn’t ‘common’ then that might be more significant.

Weeping Angel said

at 10:16 am on Mar 9, 2018

Based on the two that were found, there was something in the picture that you could see from the dig site not the dig site itself. It was more obvious in the Cleveland casque, but it was in the Chicago one as well. Until more are found, we just don't know if they all follow the same pattern. It sounds like you found something important, if you found an exact match. I think you do need to be physically in the location to put all the clues together which makes it hard just looking at a map. I don't know if what I've found has any meaning to finding the casque or was just artistic choices by the artist. Looking at the two found verses, it also seems the clues are not in order from top to bottom. The actual dig site to both were in the middle of the verse and not at the end where it implied the casque was buried .Working from the bottom of the verse up to the middle where the casque location is given would have led you to the right location. That's why I don't think the giant pole and step is necessarily at the dig site. Hopefully someone will find another one to give us more clues.

Guardian said

at 12:09 pm on Mar 10, 2018

Both Cleveland and Chicago had something in the image you couldn’t see until you were at the site. Both my Houston solutions are the same way. We won’t know if it always holds true until more are found.

zook said

at 10:51 pm on Mar 8, 2018

Look, not loom. Sorry.

Stephen said

at 8:42 pm on Mar 27, 2018

Hello Everybody, I want to introduce myself. My name is Stephen. I have some different ideas I would like to share. About me well I live in Sacramento, I have a bachelors in history, and a MBA for marketing. I and am very familiar with Golden Gate Park.

I was there last thursday checking around the Cervantes statue. I made the assumption the 'Giant' in giant pole and giant step had to do with both the windmill that Don Quixote tried to joust (giant pole) as he thought it was a giant, and also that Cervantes himself was a literary giant in the realm of fantasy. I probed all around the Cervantes statue but after going down a foot I kept hitting hard clay. The clay was so tough it bent my pole. the other things I hit were buried areas of the monument themself that were metal. Sadly I do not think the casque is in the vicinity of the Cervantes statue. It couold be there but without literally doing a full excavation I dont think people will find it.

Secondly, I thought due to the woman's face resembling the sphinxes that the De Young museum might be the place the Casque is kept. The problem is that the De Young museum has been demolished and rebuilt 3 times. The latest time it was demolished was about 2004 and what exists there now is a museum that is twice the footprint of the museum before it. The casque could be literally under a building now.

Why was I searching in that area? Well I thought the object of Twain's attention was President U.S. Grant whom Twain published the autobiography of and edited. So I had been basing the grant statue as the object of Twain's attention.

I have many other ideas but I want to make a proposal for a shared find no matter who of us finds it. I think that is fair since we are all sharing the info together. I will be heading back to the park next week to test my newest ideas via probe.

There are two other previously un-noticed things or places in the park that can very well be the object of Twain's attention!

Stephen said

at 11:57 am on Mar 28, 2018

There are a couple of prominent tress that were planted and named in the late 1800s that most everybody has forgotten about. They are northeast of the de young Museum. I am going to probe around them next week assuming all goes well. After I am done at the park I will describe in detail what I thought the solution was, what I did, and my opinion so that nobody else wastes their time doing the same thing. It seems nobody wants to share credit for the find if it happens so I will only reveal my cards after a losing hand (no casque found). I still worry that the casque is literally underneath the new de young Museum but I’d like to exhaust all other options before really forming that conclusion.

Stephen said

at 8:10 pm on Mar 28, 2018

I figure I’ll just say it, but I want to probe the Washington tree but more importantly the Liberty tree planted in the 1890s. It was planted by the sequoia chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution. It happens to be a sequoia. The largest variety of redwoods and the largest type of tree by volume. After 130 years or so the tree is quite large. It’s official. And as a species in English is Giant sequia or in science Sequoiadendron giganteum. ‘Giant Pole’ I don’t know if any steps are visible at this point but I plan to probe around there next week. The tree is on the corner of conservancy and JFK.

JulieM said

at 9:03 pm on Mar 28, 2018

I tried finding the Libert tree on google earth with no luck, good to know it is really there

Stephen said

at 8:13 pm on Mar 28, 2018

The baseball thrower statue is on JFK and above JFK is Fulton st. Named after Robert Fulton. Both could be objects of Twain’s attention. Of course Twain is also a city in California.

Stephen said

at 2:46 am on Mar 30, 2018

I once thought Ace is high was the TransAmerica building which in 1982 was the tallest in the city. Just outside the TransAmerica building is a little redwood park with a statue of frogs and Lilly pads dedicated to Mark Twain. However after studying the image it just can’t be anything but Golden Gate Park that it refers to. The face in the photo looks like the Sphinxes outside of the DeYoung museum. Her dress is literally a map of the park. Also the only two confirmed Casques found were found in parks. With that said, my original theory with the TransAmerica building led to Coit Tower and the statue of a stepping forward Columbus outside of it. I don’t think Priess knew just how ambiguous his clues are. Without paying attention a person can end up on the wrong side of the city.

Stephen said

at 12:29 pm on Mar 30, 2018

Since it seems that about everything can be linked to Twain, I think my focus will be understanding what ace is high is. I think ace is high will be the best compass for the direction of the casque. I am also wondering if we are wrong about the stone wall’s door. Is there anything else in the park that has a stone or concrete wall with a door. I do think the casque is in the north end of the park. I wonder though after all the earthquakes, reconstructions, and San Francisco salty rain and erosion of the monuments Preiss passed by are still recognizable. Or if the casque shifted lower than 4 ft down. 89 was a HUGE quake that leveled the marina district. Also the last time I walked the park I noticed a lot of the statues had missing pieces or the plaque was missing. All that was left was a space where the plaque should go. I worry a key clue might have been lost due to vandalism, decay, or disrepair.

Weeping Angel said

at 1:56 pm on Mar 30, 2018

I found a stone wall in front of the Conservatory of Flowers. I thought it could match the clue, but wanted to know what someone in San Francisco thought.

JulieM said

at 2:28 pm on Mar 30, 2018

Maybe, there are a few of these, for awhile I was stuck on the blue playground tunnel, it has spirals and large orbs above, there is also the Alvord bridge tunnel. These underpasses were originally built so that the ladies strolling thru the park, would not drag their long dresses thru the you know from the horses😎

Stephen said

at 2:52 pm on Apr 4, 2018

I wonder if stone walls door could refer to one of the park's entrances. Several of which are sided with stone or concrete walls.

Linda S said

at 2:18 pm on May 1, 2018

ok just read this article about SF GGP ......A lot of people have looked at this a lot of different ways. The volume and complexity of the theories are as mind-blowing as the puzzle itself.

There is, however, a word of caution for anyone that thinks they’ve got all of this figured out.

“If you’re going to come to San Francisco and come to Golden Gate Park, or any other park in our city, and dig for treasure, yeah, ask first,” pleads Ginsburg. “We’ll help you dig, but we want our treasure hunters to dig with treasure rangers, folks who know about roots and irrigation lines.”

As for Jeff and Sequoia’s quixotic search, it was a lot of poking, a little digging, and no cask.

They, like every San Francisco jewel hunter before them, left empty handed this day.

Exactly where the verse and that mysterious woman are trying to lead them remains a very well kept secret.

Linda S said

at 4:25 pm on May 2, 2018

just uploaded Giant Pole from 1981...just a thought that Bruce saw this also.

DK said

at 4:03 pm on May 8, 2018

Hi Linda, where do we find these things that you upload. There doesn't seem to be any links on this page to your files.

Mister EZ said

at 5:41 pm on May 8, 2018

On the right hand side of the site, you can see a 'recent activity' section....click the link at the bottom of that section called, 'more activity'. Then, click on the links that indicate an uploaded picture or file. If an image doesn't appear on the resultant page, then click on the tab just above the display area to download the pic or file.

Linda S said

at 4:26 pm on May 2, 2018

byron not bruce, so sorry.

Linda S said

at 1:31 pm on Aug 13, 2018

Hi yall, just wondering if anyone else has started at the stonewall gates off of Haight st... one side on top starts G, the other H.. just dont want to go where others have. thanks Happy Monday

Linda S said

at 1:51 pm on Aug 13, 2018

hey i was not aware of this fact: Byron Preiss said all of the images in the picture would be visible from the cask location DID ANYONE ELSE KNOW THIS? game changer

Mister EZ said

at 4:58 pm on Aug 13, 2018

His daughters told Josh Gates that he said exactly that...but, with respect to the NY puzzle (image 12). They didn't say he mentioned that for 'all of the puzzles'....just for the NY puzzle. And, I haven't seen anything that indicates that he ever said that (in an interview or old e-mail / letter) with regards to 'any' of the puzzles (other than what his daughters said).

But....if it's true for the NY puzzle, then it might be true for (some of) the others.

It's almost true for Chicago....but, not necessarily true for Cleveland....imho.

maltedfalcon said

at 5:38 pm on Aug 13, 2018

Actually demonstratably false, what his daughter said was "I think he said..."
perhaps he said "Some" perhaps she totally mis-understood , Perhaps this is only the NY casque.
look at Chicago you cannot see the M&B you cannot see the Bowman, You cannot see the fountain, you cannot see the bandshell.
Loot at Cleveland it is on the backside of a wall, it is the front side of the wall from which you can see many of the items in the picture.
Turns out BP's daughter probably knows a lot less about the hunt then you would think.

maltedfalcon said

at 5:39 pm on Aug 13, 2018

You certainly can't see the water tower or the transit building.

Mister EZ said

at 7:32 pm on Aug 13, 2018

And, you can't see the fountain in Chicago from the dig spot. Would have to lean west, stretching over the fence while peering under the bridge to see the top of the symphony center or the side of the Art Institute....and, you'd have to leap a few dozen feet in the air to see Congress Parkway (and probably the Bowman). Can't see anything related to the Bulls from there. Or, the old location of the Chicago Stockyards (if the outline of the steer's head is a veiled reference to that and maybe Upton Sinclair*, instead of the Bulls).

But, you can see the fence post.
And, the electrical fixture.
And, it happens to be centrally located to everything (almost), except for the water tower.

*No, I don't think there's a reference to the old meat packing district / Union Stockyards or "The Jungle" by Sinclair....I'm just throwing that out there, since everybody 'knows' that the outline indicates the Chicago Bulls, without question.

Kang said

at 1:34 pm on Aug 14, 2018

@Malted, while I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, I'd like to correct one point, which is demonstrably false. She did not say "I think he said..." (in regards to seeing all the features from the spot). Below is a word for word transcript. I just double checked it - episode is still on my DVR.

Gates: "Right. And so, which illustration do you think is the NY illustration?"
Daughter: "The last illustration...I think the woman in the photo has the face of the Statue of Liberty..."
Gates: "Oh, yeah, she does."
Daughter 1: I think the bottom of her dress sort of outlines the shape of Manhattan."
[mirror Image of manhattan shown]
Gates: "That's really compelling."
Daughter 1: "He said that for the NY one, where your standing--where the treasure is buried--you can see all of the features that are in that illustration."
Gates: "You can see them all from the dig spot?"
Daughter: "Yeah, from the dig spot."
Gates: "Really?
Daughter: "Yeah."

So, she is saying that he said it (Not that she thinks he said it). She also attributes his statement as being only about the NY puzzle. Now, as to the spirit of what you are saying, I agree. Her statement does not say that it applies to other puzzles, nor does it rule it out. Also, none of what she said means that he actually said it. Or that she is remembering it accurately, even if she believes he said it. Or that it is true (of NY), even if he did say it. All that is a given. I do agree with you that it does not seem to be true of Chicago and Cleveland (just my opinion). Everyone must make up their own mind about the statement. I'm just trying to clarify exactly what the statement was.

SteveMarg said

at 4:54 pm on Aug 13, 2018

That’s the million-dollar question.

I know in the Expedition Unknown episode, that Preiss’ daughters said their Dad told them that when you find the burial site for New York, you’ll be able to see all the other clues in the painting, but I don’t know if that pertains to the other casques as well. Someone would have to shoot some photos from the dig sites for Cleveland and Chicago to see if that theory holds water.

The one thing we DO know is that the clues to the burial sites from Chicago and Cleveland seem to appear toward the center of their paintings.

So…for the SF painting, we think the door at the top is in the Shakespeare Gardens, and we think the table in the picture is the sundial in Shakespeare Gardens, so if the “see all” theory is true, that means the casque is somewhere near the gardens.

Or, maybe you only have to be able to SEE the Gardens. The strawberry is also in the center of the painting, and if it means Strawberry Hill, maybe you can see the Gardens from the top of the hill? Maybe the casque IS here as everyone thinks.

I wish I knew for sure about the “see all clues” theory. It would certainly help with my theories.

As for now, I will continue my dig in the bathroom of the Starbucks on Fulton. 😊

Linda S said

at 11:58 am on Aug 14, 2018

ok so GPS was usable in 1973 for military, 1980s civilians were able to get it,, knowing he was in communications and he discussed as a public worker a lot when burying the casques, I personal would not rule out GPS numbers in the puzzles. but that me.

The GPS project was launched by the U.S. Department of Defense in 1973 for use by the United States military and became fully operational in 1995. It was allowed for civilian use in the 1980s

Kang said

at 12:28 pm on Aug 14, 2018

To each his/her own. You can choose to believe what you like. However for the benefit of anyone else who would like to explore that line of thought, the following are verifiable facts. https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/a26980/why-the-military-released-gps-to-the-public/

President Ronald Reagan opened this system to the public on September 16, 1983. After a navigational error contributed to the Russians shooting down an airliner, Korean Air flight 007.
That is approximatly 2 years after he buried the casques. And the year AFTER the book was published.
In addition, the civilian version of GPS that non-military had access to was intentionally made to only be accurate to about 100 meters. This was not changed until May 1st, 2000.

Scrappy929 said

at 4:42 pm on Aug 14, 2018

Hello all. I am new to the thread but have been researching these puzzles for quite some time. I live just north of Sacramento, about a 2-3 hr drive from San Francisco. I thought I would offer up some insight into a few things I’ve read here and comment on a few others.

I’ve studied both the Chicago & Cleveland images, verses and facts about the finds in order to gain as much insight into how those were solved and if any correlation between those two could be used to find others. One thing to take note here, and this also pertains to the most recent conversations about being able to see clues from the burial site, is that when the casque was buried, a photo was taken at the burial site and that image was sent off to JJP. If you were to bury something and wanted to find it later, you would step back and take pictures of where you buried it while also capturing background images in order to recall at a later time.

Take a look at the Chicago image. From the burial site, you can see the fence and fixture that is in the image itself. In addition, you can also look across the busway and see the staircase that leads up to Jackson St. A small portion of the staircase can also be seen in the image. Preiss buries the casque, steps back several feet and captures the image of the burial location. In that picture, he would have also captured the fence and fixture and the staircase. In the Cleveland image, the same thing applies. After he buries the casque in the plot, he would have stepped back and captured the burial location which also includes the wall. I have read here that someone has called these the “aha” moments.

Linda S said

at 12:00 pm on Aug 27, 2018

ok I think I had my AAAHHHAAA moment in my dream last night.. the cross over is 37th and 38th streets, the running north is going up 37th st from fulton..the block on her sleeves go up 8 blocks takes one to the legion of Honor Clement Street... go 3 block right and your on the corner of Clement st and Legion which used to be Lincoln hwy. anyone elses thoughts?

Linda S said

at 5:04 pm on Sep 28, 2018

ok so I was looking around and has any one else thought of brdge at the conservatory of flowers, I was thinking the back side count over like 3 bricks on the ground with the fourth big block on the wall, near the trees on either side..i uploaded an image of the area..thanks

DK said

at 5:24 pm on Sep 28, 2018

Yeah, I have thought that the image reminded me of that tunnel, but I haven't done any physical investigation.

Brad said

at 10:08 am on Nov 1, 2018

Part 1:
I have a theory (it may be bunnies)
Here's an approx. location: https://goo.gl/maps/FtT98MMkCC32
And here's my walk through theory.
San Fransico. Golden Gate Park. Front of dress is Map of Golden Gate Park (duh)
Skip a few things in the picture, and head on to the verse (I think the picture may assist in honing down the end point)
At stone wall's door (NE corner of GGP, as Linda S pointed out Stone Wall (there's a stone retaining wall there, and an entrance)
The air smells sweet (Walk South West (the only way) past the Conservatory of Flowers where the air smells sweet)
Not far away (Close by)
High posts are three (pass by the horseshoe courts where a ringer- a horseshoe around the stake (post) scores 3 points)
Education and Justice (Henry Halleck statue on JFK Drv at end of the path on other side of road. HH was Army Officer, Scholar and Lawyer (Ed and Justice???)
For all to see (?)
Sounds from the sky (?)
Near ace is high (Tennis Courts- Ace?!? near HH Statue)
Running north, but first across (Nancy Pelosi Drv. (fmr Middle Drv East!!!) MLK Jnr Drv (Fmr South Drv until 1983). Goes across, then Music Concourse Drv goes North.)
In jewel's direction (obvious)
Is an object (something in painting- possibly the arched door)
Of Twain's attention (Verdi statue on Music Concourse Drv faces across the road to a secluded area between the road and California Academy of Sciences)
Giant pole (??)
Giant step (The Old California Academy of Science Building/ Music Concourse fits the bill, alternatively, Shakespeare garden)
To the place
The casque is kept.

Brad said

at 10:08 am on Nov 1, 2018

Part 2:

My other theory is the last 4 lines are reversed (like the top of the map on the front of the dress, so it should read: The Casque is kept to the place Giant step, Giant pole.
So it may be at a giant (big) pole near a big drop off in that area.
An issue would be that the Verdi Statue faces the California Academy of Science building which is a new building built (c.2005) after the 1989 Earthquake damaged the old one. I'll post a photo of the area as it would have been around 1981.



Brad said

at 10:30 am on Nov 1, 2018

Francis Scott Key Statue at the end of Music Concourse has a flag pole on it. It's in the right area.
Need to stop posting!!!

Brad said

at 10:45 am on Nov 1, 2018

Goethe Schiller statue is mounted on big steps. Was moved a few times, so would need to work out where it was (somewhere around Music Concourse) in 1981.

Linda S said

at 11:23 am on Nov 1, 2018

I have read that the monument’s original location in 1901 was not where it stands in the park today. Although it was in Golden Gate Park somewhere on the road that rings the Music Concourse, around 1920 the statue was moved. When construction began on the new Academy of Sciences building in 2005, Goethe and Schiller were yet again relocated a short distance to their present spot on the left (west) side of the Academy, so I have sent GGP an email asking for more information and dates of moves.
hope to hear back soon.

Linda S said

at 11:29 am on Nov 1, 2018

here the parks response to the FS KEY MONUMENT Francis Scott Key Monument
This “Wedding Cake” monument was originally dedicated on the same day in 1888 as the second Music Stand, on which grounds the monument originally stood. The 52-foot-high classically styled travertine-and-marble shrine, by sculptor William Wetmore Story, remembers the author of America’s national anthem. Francis Scott Key, a lawyer and an amateur lyricist-poet, witnessed firsthand the shelling of Fort McHenry on September 13, 1814, which inspired him to write a poem. Benefactor James Lick was also in Baltimore during the shelling of Fort McHenry, an experience that compelled him to leave a bequest of $60,000 to erect the monument. The bronze portions were cast in Italy and shipped from Genoa around Cape Horn, a 187-day trip aboard the ship Pietro B. Francis Scott Key’s lyrics are inscribed at the base of the statue in incised letters, which were originally gold leafed. For some reason the James Lick Trustees only released $40,000 to Story and he sued for the balance in January of 1891. The figure on top of this monument represents the Goddess of Liberty, while the seated figure is a likeness of Key. At the upper corners are eagles with outstretched wings while the head of a bison holds a draped garland on each facade.

Multitalented sculptor Story was born in Salem, Mass., and graduated from nearby Harvard University in 1838. He practiced law in Boston for several years but was also interested in poetry. Story worked as an expatriate sculptor in Rome and died in 1895 at Vallombrosa, Italy. His sculptures also include the white marble statue of a reclining King Saul and the partially draped figure of a young woman, Dalilah, both in the collections of the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco.

Linda S said

at 11:31 am on Nov 1, 2018

part 2 of email....Donor Lick, the city’s single greatest benefactor, was equally a fiscally conservative. The grandson of a Revolutionary War veteran, Lick was Pennsylvania Dutch by birth and early on became a cabinetmaker. Gaunt looking, he lived on a starvation diet and wore tattered clothes. He amassed great amounts of money, however, and also provided funds for the property occupied by the first California Academy of Sciences building on Market Street.

Originally the monument was dedicated just east of the present-day tennis courts on July 4, 1888, the same day as the adjacent second Music Stand. When more tennis courts were required, the memorial was relocated to the courtyard of the California Academy of Sciences in May of 1908. The monument had been damaged by the 1906 temblor and required repair anyway; McGilvray Stone Company carried out the $1,800 commission.

But with expansion of the Academy in 1967, the work was stored in the park’s maintenance yard. It might have stayed there if not for the help of its fans, most notably passionate park historian Raymond Clary. The structure was finally assembled in its present location with a rededication ceremony on July 4, 1977 at the east end of Music Concourse, where the Electric Fountain once stood for the Midwinter Fair. Two time capsules containing memorabilia and records were buried at its base. This installation cost $127,500, with contributions from the academy, patriotic and historic groups, civic groups, the State Bicentennial Commission, and the state bond issue for beaches and parks. The site chosen was the perfect selection as it is on axis with the also classical Spreckels Temple of Music. The rebuilding was carried out by Valentine Corporation with architect James Hahn and Structural Engineer Glenn R. Nelson.

Linda S said

at 11:31 am on Nov 1, 2018

part 3....The form is a much smaller version of the high-Victorian Gothic Albert Memorial in London that was dedicated in 1872. Baltimore finally got its due when, in 1911, Marius Jean Antonin Mercie's more dynamic version of a memorial was dedicated in Eutaw Place, just a few years before the centenary celebration of the battle.

The Francis Scott Key Monument is City and County of San Francisco Historic Landmark 96.

Kang said

at 5:51 pm on Nov 1, 2018

@Brad and @LindaS - great work! Here is some info that may help. According to my research, the Goethe-Schiller statue remained in the same location as the picture Brad posted (likely from the early '60's) - until the 2005 renovation.
In this pic from 1970 it is still located just off the corner of the CAS http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/129915162/Goethe-Schiller_GGP_Centennial_Apr_4_1970.jpg
And was still indicated as being in that same spot in the mid-late 1990's according to this SF Parks diagram. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/129915273/Music_Concourse_c1995.JPG
And here it is still there in 2005 just as the tear down of most of the old CAS was beginning http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/129915519/CAS_2005_beginning_teardown.JPG

So, that would bracket the 1981-ish time frame of interest. During the 2005 reconstruction of the CAS and renovation of the Music Concourse it was moved several yards north of that location - a little further away from the new CAS - to the spot it still sits today. I hope that helps!

Linda S said

at 5:39 pm on Nov 6, 2018

ok just got back the email from GGP on Goethe Shiller monument, seems its been move ALOT..good reading.

Linda S said

at 5:42 pm on Nov 6, 2018

so where it stood in 1920 would be the spot, just Northeast of the Academy building..

Brad said

at 7:39 am on Nov 26, 2018

Bad translation from Japanese version of book:

The second line "sweet" Basically, it is a meaning of "sweet", but it seems better not to be obsessed with too much "sweet". Because the smell of smell is sweet, let's think of it as "a moderate ???" as an aid.
Line 4 "High Post" This post is wooden. (this is a DEFINITE translation... one of the easiest ones to do.)
Line 5 "Education and Justice" I do not quite understand this alone, but after thinking about Education and Justice and posts can be seen not far, it is easy to understand. "Is it possible to see education and ??? in places that are not so far" ...?
Line 7 "Sounds from the sky" Is there anything called "sound from the sky"? There are lots of sounds coming from the sky. Bird's special? The sound of a hypothesis of wanting *? However, there are sounds that we can not hear for human ears. Sounds that can not be heard without using (tortuous branch techniques)(???) ....
Line 12 "Twain" Speaking of Twain, that one is famous ...

Very difficult translation due to the lo res image I'm working from.

Linda S said

at 1:21 pm on Nov 26, 2018

so has anyone else found the word in the dragon? seems each of the images has some clue spelled out.. my nephew went walking all over the city while he was here. I gave him the poem and image he came back and told me to look at Grace Cathedral Church, thinking if he may have found the area, if I find it, I want to donate it to the City of SF in honor of Autism Speaks, just another idea in this crazy puzzle.

Guardian said

at 3:50 pm on Dec 1, 2018

Not until now. I turned it counterclockwise and saw “gems”. I found another word in I8, and I took it as confirmation of my spot. It’s actually the first part of the word, and I found it in the spout. It could also be part of a message that goes through the images sequentially, and it could just be a coincidence or a deliberate confirmer that it’s nearby but not the actual dig spot.

SteveMarg said

at 12:50 am on Dec 8, 2018

I have an area of Golden Gate Park that I'd like to "search". I've seen the ground penetrating radar that looks like a lawn mower. Has anyone ever seen the hand-held units where you walk with an antenna in front of you and behind you? I’d love to rent one of those for a few hours. 😊

Linda S said

at 3:54 pm on Jan 8, 2019

ok just had another ahhhaaa moment on this darn puzzle, the SF Scottish Rite Masonic Center with Sigmund Stern Grove across the street, i notice the symbols on the building resemble several of those on her rob. has anyone else thought of this area?

Linda S said

at 1:12 pm on Jan 15, 2019

ok so if post could mean markers, there are 3 in the park, first rising of us flag, second the clay street railroad and third the first public school.
THE FIRST PARK is in Chinatown, Twains attention was the Chinese, he loved them and their ways, they were kind people. Gold was first announced in this park. Goddess of democracy is there.. a lot more in common than I thought I would find. READ THE STORY FIRST, then the verses then the image..thats what I'm working on. thanks

Linda S said

at 1:57 pm on Feb 27, 2019

WELL it appears this casque may have been located, Parks confirmed a dig, and an item removed from ground.. CONGRADS to Gerald Gay

Indigoone said

at 9:16 am on Feb 28, 2019

Linda, I'm on the edge of my seat to learn more about this. Do you know if there is any media or news reports? Do you have any more info?

Weeping Angel said

at 9:44 am on Feb 28, 2019

It was verified by JoEllen and Jon Palencar that it is a fake casque. The pictures of the fake casque are on Q4T. It looks nothing like the original casque but the paint under the lid looks close to the chicago one.

Linda S said

at 11:37 am on Feb 28, 2019

omg I go to sleep and wake up to this news.. WHY do ppl do this...well I guess that Dr Gerald Gay has lost his credibility...the search is back on again..

Brad said

at 6:57 pm on Feb 28, 2019

Dr Gerard Gay may not be real, but the whole thing may be a long and elaborate ruse.
Sadly, the casque was buried and dug up. The bad news is that it was a fake.
It was in my exact location, and I am hoping that he buried it just inches above or next to a real one, and I was right. But I highly doubt after this fiasco that anyone would be allowed to redig there, and GGP or even other SF locations may be out of bounds as this may sour the hunt in the eyes of the Parks Dept.

Burbank_ian said

at 7:09 pm on Feb 28, 2019

Hi Brad, Not sure if someone has dug that exact same spot before. But if you want to have some kind of closure or confirmation on your spot I'd be happy to to dig (with relevant permission, if GGP will allow it anymore) on you're behalf and video the entire dig.

Brad said

at 8:37 pm on Feb 28, 2019

Thanks Ian... but in all honesty, I think that spot may have been dug before by someone on the Q4T forum (people were talking about it), and someone clearlt hass dug there, and has probably managed to go down far enough. I was just thinking about irony...
However, if you are feeling in need to digging somewhere, you could do it. Ask SF Parks, and when you're asking, see if you can speak to Stanley Chow, the ranger who witnessed the sham dig. If he can confirm a very shallow dig, there might be merit. The real casque should be 3-3.5 feet down. Not very far, and if someone buried a casque and perspex box on top, the bottom of that dig would probably be getting close to the top of any real casque. Then, given the approx 1 foot box, and the fake could have been as far as the corner of a real one, the zone of disturbance goes out to almost 3x3 feet... so... it looks unlikely.
If you want though, for your own curiosity... be my guest. Just remember that the treasure stays with SF Parks to be displayed for all to see.

Burbank_ian said

at 9:19 pm on Feb 28, 2019

I'm on Q4T (bbi) and I do see some chatter about the Verdi Statue in the past but I couldn't find anything that said it had been dug around that spot ( I may be missing something, I used the advance search and found a few things that use it as a reference for Twains attention). Just couldn't find anything that stated an unsuccessful dig? Maybe it was in Josh C's comments that I think had been removed.

Brad said

at 9:37 pm on Feb 28, 2019

When I posited Verdi's pole as a pointer, I searched through Q4T and found no-one referring to it, or digging at it. So I believed it was unique. Recent chatter suggested a dig in the past and in the last few months. But you can never tell...

Mike said

at 12:43 am on Mar 1, 2019

I looked at the statue yesterday and it didn’t look like anyone had dug there recently, at least not at any depth. @Burbank_ian email me if you want to team up, we could get two permits which would allow us more time and space to search if they are still accepting applications.

Joecool said

at 2:48 pm on Mar 2, 2019

Mike and Burbanl_ian, I'm in SF too and can assist with another dig. Email me if you need support. FYI, I'm available any Friday or weekends.

Brad said

at 11:15 am on Mar 2, 2019

I just saw some photos on Q4T, as there is still scuttlebut about the digsite.
The photos show a chicken scratching right next to the edge of the statue base. Talk was that previous dig had occurred right next to base.
Talk is now about digging about 4 foot out because that constitutes a "giant step.
I don't think either of these are correct. Preiss would not leave us with a vague possible location (although this is proved wrong in the case of Chicago).
If I were to check the site, I would take a piece of cord, tie it to the pole a little way up, and move it until the cord alignes with the base of the pole. CSI style, creating a projection out from the pole and on to the ground. If it extends some way out of what seems to have been dug, then we could be in luck. If it's right at the edge, no luck, it's already been dug, probably twice.
Remembering that only a foot or so further away from any dig will create a new dig site. In Chicago, the dig occurred a far bit, the searches got frustrated and chucked a shovel into the hole and heard the ping. A matter of an inch can be the difference between "hidden" and unearthed.
As there is talk of a redig on Q4T, if you want to dig, I'd do it sooner rather than later.

skeller@... said

at 3:28 pm on Mar 1, 2019

The comments do not go back far enough, but I remember a gentleman dug at that statue and found nothing but concrete. He was using the same idea of the pole. If anyone remembers his name or if the page operator can access older comments you might find it. I believe it was around March or April of last year

Linda S said

at 5:46 pm on Mar 1, 2019

i was able to go back 5 years but not seeing the posts i have in the past about the pole and who did it.

Linda S said

at 4:17 pm on Mar 5, 2019

and those that haven't heard on other sites, Gerald Gay did it again he found yet ANOTHER Casque,,, boy hes good

Joecool said

at 11:47 am on Apr 13, 2019

!!! Pray tell the details of this marvel!

Linda S said

at 10:01 am on Apr 15, 2019

Joecool, he staged it, it was a fake..

Oregonian said

at 10:28 am on Apr 15, 2019

Can you give us more details about this additional fake casque? Was it also in Golden Gate Park, like the first one? Are there photos or news articles?

Honestly, I don't know why Gerald Gay would go through it again, after being revealed as a fraud the first time. Anything he digs up now will be always be assumed to be part of a fraud. But it certainly makes an interesting story.

Brad said

at 7:40 pm on Apr 15, 2019

Dr Gay's story changes faster than I change my underwear. In a later release (I think on his Chassour's site) he said that he didn't dig at Huntington (despite the photos), but in fact dug about 5m from Verdi, stating that I got the clues mainly right, but just got the wrong end. He insists that the casque he dug near Verdi is real (and it may not be the one in the photos) and that he is not releasing anything about it until the meeting they are having in France with his Golden Owl buddies.
I don't believe a word he says, and neither should anyone else. The diggers who just dug at Verdi looked at the depression that people are saying was a dig, and there were undisturbed tree roots in it, just below the surface, so it wasn't dug there. They then scoured the area out past 5m for anything that looked like disturbed soil and found nothing. It's just a story I'm sure there's more to it, but it's not worth wasting your time on.

Linda S said

at 11:47 am on Apr 19, 2019

so i was just as confused as everyone else, so i personally contacted GGP and this is their respose...
Our Permit Office has confirmed that Mr. Gay’s permit was approved for the Verdi Statue, however he dug below the Huntington Falls sign on Strawberry Hill. Please note that this is not in keeping with our permit rules, and we are not allowing permittees to dig at sites that were not approved on the permit application. If a treasure hunter chooses another site after the permit is approved, they will need to apply again for a new dig permit. This is to ensure that our staff can properly evaluate dig locations to preserve irrigation and landscaping.

Linda S said

at 11:48 am on Apr 19, 2019

why??? we may never know.. sad one has to lie and cheat

Linda S said

at 11:08 am on Apr 15, 2019

its the same story, he make it look like he found it at Verdi but then photos came up at the falls, so it seemed at first as 2 digs..faked the entire thing.dude is a jerk..

Oregonian said

at 12:38 pm on Apr 19, 2019

Thanks for following up on that, Linda! We'll probably never get the full story, but every new piece of info fills it out a bit.

At this point I'm assuming that Gerald Gay found only a single (fake) casque and that the talk of a second casque was just the confusion over the two dig sites.

Linda S said

at 2:16 pm on Dec 10, 2019

ok this is what the ranger is saying.... IF members of your group may come and dig unauthorized. If this happens we will have to investigate. I do want to remind you that unauthorized digging and/or taking buried items from a National Park Unit is a serious crime, likely a felony.. i have been denied by this person, but i am still moving up the chain. keep you all posted.

Linda S said

at 4:42 pm on Jan 23, 2020

ok i got my response back from San Fran NPS..

I appreciate your persistence but I am following regulation. This is not a choice I am making. Digging for treasure is not an allowable recreation activity, especially in a National Historic Landmark District.

I think this matter is confused because San Francisco City has allowed some supervised digging in Golden Gate Park. We are a federal organization and a National Historic Landmark District which is very different.


but im not giving up yet.. i went and asked Gavin Newsome to help me.. he was SF mayor for many years and has a heart for this City, so maybe he will respond.,, again ill keep ya posted.

Limey said

at 7:11 am on Feb 19, 2023

Does anyone know whether this GGP Pine Street entrance was there in the early 80’s? http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/152185569/GGP_page-street-entrance.jpg
If so, it could tie in with “Near ace is high” line.

Jim B said

at 7:21 pm on Feb 19, 2023

Could that be “Page St” rather than Pine St?

Limey said

at 4:46 am on Feb 20, 2023

Yes sorry, your right Jim B, I meant 'Page Street'.

Limey said

at 11:02 am on Apr 16, 2023

“Sounds from the sky Near ace is high”
If Aquatic Park is the casque location area, “Sounds from the sky Near ace is high” could be a play on words – i.e. “Sounds from the sky, Near A’s, is high” - the speaker towers are the ‘A’s with the speakers high up on top of them. Also the ‘A’ symbol in the dress has a crooked ‘crossbar’ similar to the speaker tower design. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/152764086/image_01_%27A%27.jpg
If the line is as written, the speaker towers are next to the Maritime Museum which was briefly used as a casino in the past (Blackjack “ace is high”).
Alternatively the “Sounds from the sky” may refer to the San Francisco Outdoor Warning System. This has broadcast a ‘test’ message, via multiple speakers/sirens up high on tall poles and some buildings, every Tuesday at noon since the ‘40’s when it was installed.
There is one located on the edge of GGP at the junction of Crossover Drive and Fulton Street (near Highway 1 – “ace is high”?). Crossover Drive runs north and across to the left in the park.
Or, Highway 1 runs across to the right and north – “Running north, but first across”. There is another speaker/siren at the junction of Fulton Street and 11th Avenue, just a couple of blocks from Highway 1, again “Sounds from the sky Near ace is high”.

Limey said

at 5:40 am on Apr 30, 2023

“High posts are three”
Does anyone know where this is? http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/152904765/High_posts_are_three_Verse_07.jpg
It’s a still from a very short YouTube home video shot in San Francisco by a Swiss filmmaker in 1982.
It’s right at the end of the clip at 0.40 – 0.44 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-8brWcsScs

John Murray said

at 12:12 pm on Apr 30, 2023

Are the post made of wood? Byron. Preiss said during a interview for the translation of the Japanese version that high post were made of wood

Limey said

at 9:34 am on May 1, 2023

Thanks for your reply John.
I’m trying to establish firstly where they are/were, secondly were they in an area of interest to any search theories and yes, thirdly were they wooden flag poles.

scott baughman said

at 9:43 am on May 1, 2023

High post are three = 3 statues with wood elements in GGP (Thomas Starr King, Junipero Serra & Francis Scott Key) King & Serra were part of the National Statuary Hall Collection in the Capital Building (DC) in the 1980s. All three statues are in Golden Gate Park near/in the Music Concourse.

Thomas Starr King w/ wood rods - https://sfrichmondreview.com/2020/07/04/looking-back-starr-king/
Junipero Serra w/ wood cross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Jun%C3%ADpero_Serra_(San_Francisco)
Francis Scott Key w/ wood flag pole - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Francis_Scott_Key_(San_Francisco)

Limey said

at 10:26 am on May 1, 2023

Joecool said

at 7:28 pm on May 1, 2023

Yes it is in Fisherman's Wharf, near Pier 39, corner of The Embarcadero and Powell.

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