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The Secret (a treasure hunt) / Verse 05
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Verse 05

Page history last edited by jamie.ramzan@hotmail.com 5 months, 4 weeks ago

General notes on Verse 5

  • This verse is thought to be linked to Image 9 and a casque on either Notre Dame Island or Saint Helen's Island in Montreal, Canada. 
  • If this verse is really connected to Montreal, it's quite possible that part of it (or all of it) should be translated into French.

 

 

Interpretation

Lines Interpretation(s)

Lane

- The word "lane" according to Merriam-Webster is defined as:

   1. a narrow passageway between fences or hedges.  

   2. a relatively narrow way or track: such as

      a : an ocean route used by or prescribed for ships

      b : a strip of roadway for a single line of vehicles

      c : air lane

      d : any of several parallel courses on a track or swimming pool in which a competitor must stay during a race

 

- How are shipping lanes labeled?  Are they numbered in a way that could be represented by two twenty two?

   A lane is a strip of deck 2 metres wide. A lane metre is an area of deck one lane wide and one metre long, that is, 2 square metres (21.528 sq ft)  Most commonly associated with "roll on/roll off" vessels - cargo ships and ferries.

 

- Given the checkered pattern that is so prominent in Image 9, the most likely competition having lanes might be auto racing.  And the most prominent auto racing venue in the Montreal area is the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve on Notre Dame Island in the Saint Lawrence River.  The track was built in 1978 and is the home of the FIA Formula One Canadian Grand Prix.

 

- Alternatively, it could refer to the rowing and canoeing basin on Notre Dame Island.  The basin was built for Montreal's 1976 Summer Olympics and it forms a long rectangle of lanes.

 

Two twenty two

- These words appear on their own line, suggesting that they may be a separate clue, rather than an identifier of the lane.

 

- This could be "222" or "2202" or "2 20 2." (Note that it doesn't say "twenty-two," which would be the standard way of writing "22.")

 

- Oddly enough, there is a bowling alley near the Montreal Airport at 222 Montée de Liesse, but nothing else suggests that we should be looking out in that direction west of Mount Royal.

 

- The street address for the grand prix racetrack is 222 Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, but it isn't clear whether there's actually a physical office at that address.

 

- Given the presence of an "X" in Image 9 to represent the 10th month, it's very possible that what we're looking for here is a set of Roman numerals: II XX II.  In the "real world," the lines may not even be intended as numbers.  They may just be a repeated pattern on brickwork or bars on a wrought iron fence or stripes on a road.  Unfortunately, they may also be gone by now.

 

You'll see an arc of lights

- The layout of the Gilles Villeneuve Circuit has changed a few times over the years.  Between 1979 and 1987, the start/finish line for the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve was at the northern tip of Notre Dame Island beside the east end of the Passerelle du Cosmos (Cosmos Bridge).  The image at left below is from the Motor Sport Database file for Montreal.  The image at right is from a trading sticker collection for the 1980 race series.

 

 

  At the west end of the Cosmos Bridge (on Saint Helen's Island) is the Montreal Biosphère.  It's a spherical geodesic dome that was built for Expo 67.  People standing at the racetrack wouldn't be able to see the whole dome, but they would be able to see the top of the sphere on the horizon and it would definitely form "an arc."  (The word "lights" could refer to either artificial lighting from inside or to the way the dome caught the sunlight.)

 

- This line appears to be summoning the searchers across the bridge from Notre Dame Island to Saint Helen's Island.

 

Here is the view looking northwest from where the finish line of the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve was located in 1980.  (Note the Tour de Lévis (Lévis Tower) visible above the trees to the right of the biosphere.)

 


Weight and roots extended

Together saved the site

Of granite walls

- These lines suggest that a flood or some other natural disaster could have washed away the foundation of a building ("granite wall") if roots and rocks hadn't prevented the erosion.  If that interpretation is correct, we should be looking for a historic site near a river or beach.

 

- Notre Dame Island is an artificial island that was built in the Saint Lawrence River in 1965 to prepare for Expo 67.  It doesn't have "granite walls" and it hadn't existed long enough in 1980 for "roots extended" to save it from anything. 

 

- This line appears to be very directly confirming that we should cross the Cosmos Bridge from Notre Dame Island to Saint Helen's Island.  That move would put us in a place with historic granite fortifications.  Saint Helen's Island is a natural island in the river.  The extended roots of the vegetation along the perimeter of the island are what hold the rocks and soil together to prevent erosion.  (There may have even been a sign in 1980 to educate the public about the important role of riparian vegetation.)

 

- It would be very useful to see a closeup of this sign at the southern tip of Saint Helen Island.  It appears to show a cross-section of the edge of the island.

 

Wind swept halls

- This line seems to describe a ruin or an abandoned building where wind is blowing down hallways.

 

- Because of the "67" in the flower, it has often been suggested that Image 9 might be connected in some way with the site of Expo 67, which took place in Montreal on Saint Helen's Island and the adjacent (artificial) Notre Dame Island.  Between 1968 and 1984, the exposition structures and grounds on both islands were open to the public in the summer months as an exhibit called "Man and His World."  According to Wikipedia, the site was largely deserted and windswept by the late 1970's and early 1980's:

"With the site falling into disrepair, and several pavilions left abandoned and vandalized, it began to resemble ruins of a futuristic city.  ...  After the 1981 season, the Saint Helen's Island site permanently closed, shutting out the majority of attractions. Man and His World was able to continue in a limited fashion with the small number of pavilions left standing on Notre Dame Island. However, the few remaining original exhibits closed permanently in 1984."

 

Citadel in the night

- According to Wikipedia, "A citadel is the core fortified area of a town or city. It may be a fortress, castle, or fortified center. The term is a diminutive of 'city' and thus means 'little city,' so called because it is a smaller part of the city of which it is the defensive core." (Wikipedia also offers a disambiguation page for other meanings of "citadel.")

 

- The Salvation Army Citadel Corps Building is located at 2085 Drummond, just a few blocks away from the "legeater dog" outside the George Stephen House located at 1440 Drummond.

 

- The Tour de Lévis (Lévis Tower) might be the closest thing that would qualify as a "citadel" near the Biosphere.  It was built in the 1930's and it stands as a solitary, fortified tower on a hill, offering "360-degree view of the islands, the river, downtown Montreal and the surrounding areas."  The tower has commonly been used for watching fireworks ("in the night").

 

- The Saint Helen Island Fort might be another structure that could qualify as a "citadel" on the island.

 

A wingless bird ascended

Born of ancient dreams of flight

The reference to "ancient dreams of flight" make this almost certainly a reference to some form of aircraft invented by humans.  If the aircraft is "wingless," there are really only two possibilities: a helicopter or some lighter-than-air vehicle (e.g., a balloon, blimp, or dirigible).

 

Option A: a helicopter

- Long before heavier-than-air flight had been achieved, Leonardo da Vinci drew up sketches for a machine that could fly with a rotor on top.

 

Leonardo da Vinci helicopter

 

- Is there a helicopter connection to either Saint Helen Island or Notre Dame Island?  There was a helicopter landing pad on Saint Helen Island as part of Expo 67.  We need to find out when it was removed and whether it was gone by the time Preiss visited in 1980 or 1981.

 

- This could refer to the Air Canada pavilion at Expo 67: it clearly resembles the da Vinci sketches of the flying machines.  (In fact, the Air Canada pavilion was later repurposed as the Leonardo da Vinci Pavilion at the 1970 Man and His World exposition, which was held on the same site.)

 

 

 

Option B: a balloon

- According to Wikipedia, there is a historical tie between the Montreal area and ballooning: "On September 8, 1856, French aeronaut, Eugène Godard, operating a balloon called Canada (the first aircraft ever constructed in Canada), piloted the country's first successful passenger flight, carrying three passengers from Montreal to Pointe-Olivier, Quebec."


- According to an article published in the Montreal Gazette in 2001, the launch site was "behind the Wesleyan Church in Griffintown, adjacent to the municipal gasworks whose output would lift the Canada."  Griffintown is now a neighborhood in Montreal, directly southeast of the Golden Square Mile and very close to the St. Lawrence River.  The Wesleyan church was located on the corner of Ottawa and Ann Streets, at the same intersection as the gas works.  It seems well worth searching Griffintown area for image matches and for a historical marker or something similar that commemorates the launch.

 

- Pointe-Olivier is now called the Municipality of Saint-Mathias-sur-Richelieu.  It is located about 15 miles east of downtown Montreal.  A balloon flight from Griffintown to Pointe-Olivier would have crossed the St. Lawrence river just below the southern tip of Saint Helen's Island.  (The island of Notre Dame had not yet been constructed at that time.)

 

Beneath the only standing member

Of a forest

To the south

- Can this be anything other than a single old tree in a cleared area?

White stone closest

- The rules for The Secret specifically (and firmly) rule out any cemeteries, so the "white stone" isn't going to be a headstone.  But Preiss obviously felt confident that this particular stone wasn't going anywhere and would still be around for months or years to come.  It's a reasonable guess that either this stone is big and heavy (over 100 pounds) or this stone is attached somehow to the ground or to a structure.

 

- It would be unusual for a large, exposed stone to be naturally white.  We may be looking for a stone that is (or was) painted white.

 

- Why "closest"?  Does this mean that there's more than one white stone?

 

At twelve paces

From the west side

- Preiss is giving us directions here, but the phrasing is convoluted.  We are juggling at least two landmarks - the tree and the stone - but it isn't clear whether the burial spot is beside one of those two features or whether it's a separate feature entirely.

 

- If we start below the solitary, large tree, is it the forest that's "to the south" or is it the white stone?  Do we start our pacing at the tree or at the stone?  And does starting "from the west side" mean that we pace westwards, or do we just start on that side but go in some other direction? 

 

- It's possible that the tree is twelve paces from the west side of the stone and we should dig under the tree (or vice-versa).  But this interpretation only makes sense if "to the south" modifies "a forest."  It's possible that Preiss was talking about a forest that once stood at the southern tip of Saint-Helene Island.

 

Get permission

To dig out.

- The instructions tell us to "get permission," but they don't tell us from whom.  This suggests that the ownership of the spot (and the appropriate contact person) will be obvious.

 

- The Ontario One Call system probably didn't exist back in 1980, but maybe the "get permission" bit was meant to tell us to use whatever equivalent was available.  (In any case, searchers would be wise to use the system before attempting a dig now.)

 

For what it's worth, here's a drawing of a map of the island from 1979!!!!

(Note that this perspective is from above Saint Helen Island looking southeastwards toward Notre Dame Island.)

 

 

 

 

Other Notes:

  • The initial letters of lines 9 through 13 spell out "ABBOT" which may be a clue in some way.  An abbot is a Christian clergyman, particularly the head of a monastery.  Given that the figure in Image 9 is making some kind of church signal with his hands ("here's the church, here's the steeple"), it's possible that our final destination will be a church property of some sort and we are supposed to ask the abbot for permission to do the dig.
  • When Eugène Godard launched his balloon, the Canada, from Griffintown in 1856, the launch site was beside the Wesleyan Church at the corner of Ottawa and Ann streets.  A few blocks further down Ottawa are the ruins of St. Anne's Church, which was built in 1854.  There may be some connection there.
  • It's also possible that "CABBOT" is a hint toward Cabot Square in Montreal (although it seems unlikely that Preiss would misspell the name).
  • The official souvenir map of Expo 67 is available online as a very high-resolution image. The Air Canada pavilion is structure 332.

 

 

 

Question: Is the white stone at the southern tip of Saint Helen's Island really THE white stone that Verse 5 is telling us to find?

  For some time now, searchers have had their eye on a large white stone just south of the Place des Nations on Saint Helen's Island.  In some ways it fits the written and visual clues very well.  In other ways, it doesn't.  To hash it all out, this table lists the pros and cons of this solution.  Please contribute your ideas and insights!

 


(photo contributed by wiki user wildshadow20)

YES!  It must be the right stone!

NO!  It can't be the right stone!

- It's a large, white stone.  (And the only one we know of on the island.)

- It's probably been there for a long time and Preiss could be sure that it wasn't going anywhere.

- The verse describes "a forest to the south" and the stone is under some trees at the very southern tip of Saint Helen's Island.

- It's very near a compass rose, and Preiss seemed to have a fondness for that sort of thing.

- It's beside the Place des Nations, which would have been "windswept halls" in 1980. 

- The Place des Nations also has symbols on it that are very similar to the "runes" in the image.

- From the southern tip of Saint Helen's Island there's a view across the water to the Habitat 67 building that seems to be in the image. 

- The view from the southern tip of Saint Helen's Island would also show the path taken by the Canada when it flew across the St. Lawrence river in 1856.

- Maybe the tree closest to the stone was significantly larger than the other nearby trees in 1980.

- The verse is telling us that the casque is buried under the tree.  We should start at the white stone, go twelve paces from the west side of it (westwards, toward the tree) and dig there.

 

- Apart from the checkered flag cuffs, nothing in Image 9 points to either Notre Dame Island or Saint Helen's Island.  In fact, many clues in the image seem to be pointing us to a different Montreal location inside the Golden Square Mile.  The clues leading us to this particular stone on an island in the St Lawrence river are coming almost entirely from the verse.

- There are lots of trees around and the Expo 67 map shows that the trees have been there for a long time.  There's no "only standing member of a forest."

- How would we "get permission" to dig at this site?  Who would we ask?  It's not like this is in somebody's front yard or something.

- Big Flaw: There's an electric light fixture (a lamp post) very near the stone and it must be powered by underground wiring.  There's no way that Preiss would be crazy enough to have us dig where we might hit a power line.

 

Diagramming the sentence(s):

The phrasing at the end of the verse is maddeningly vague, but let's take a stab at diagramming it out.  For the sake of this analysis, let's assume that the white stone at the southern tip of Sainte Helene Island is really THE white stone.

 

Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south,

White stone closest at twelve paces from the west side.

 

"To the south" would seem to modify "forest" and "of a forest" would seem to modify "member," so those lines would all seem to go together and would seem to tell us that we should go south from the earlier clues and look under a tree.

 

The second bit is trickier.  If "from the west side" applies to "twelve paces," it would seem to suggest that we start at the west side of something and go twelve pace (presumably going westwards).  But where do we start?

 

Interpretation #1:  The lines are telling us to go to the tree, find the closest white stone, and then take 12 paces from the west side.  So "closest" means "closest white stone" and "from the west side" means "from the west side of the stone."

Interpretation #2: The second line is helping us identify the tree by telling us that this tree is the one closest to the white stone.  It further confirms the spot by telling us that the stone is 12 paces from the west side of the tree.  So "closest" means "closest tree" and "from the west side" means "from the west side of the tree."

 

Problems with Interpretation #1:  A) It sends us toward the streetlight and the underground power lines.  B) It would put us out in an incredibly hard-packed dirt and gravel road where digging by hand would be almost impossible.  C) "Twelve paces" is an incredibly vague way to describe an exact spot for digging.  It's really hard to believe that Preiss would say "Hey, go borrow a pickaxe and spend a few weeks excavating a crater in the middle of a maintenance road.  Don't electrocute yourselves."

 

Problems with Interpretation #2: If the rock is only mentioned as a confirmation of the correct tree, then we are apparently meant to dig at the tree.  But what side?  West side?  How far out from the trunk?  It's not as vague as "twelve paces," but it's still a long ways from "X marks the spot."

 

 

 

 

Comments (Show all 59)

NYBass said

at 11:59 am on Jul 27, 2017

that absolutely looks like somewhere Preiss would hide a casque.

Oregonian said

at 2:16 pm on Jul 27, 2017

Yep. I've had my eye on that spot for quite awhile now. (Preiss did seem to have a thing for compass roses.)

It may be the right spot, but three things still make me hesitate:
1) That looks like a really old light fixture, which means it may have been around in 1980. It's EXTREMELY unlikely that Preiss would bury something beside a lamp post, where searchers might hit an underground power line during the digging.
2) How would "the only standing member of a forest" apply to this spot? There are a lot of large trees there, and several of them were probably there in 1980.
3) How would "ask permission" apply to this spot? Who would we ask?

None of those things completely rule it out, but they do make me hesitate. It would be very helpful to find older photos of that spot at the tip of the island.

David said

at 3:22 pm on Jul 27, 2017

I doubt that this is a light fixture. I'll try to go see when I get a chance.
As for the "only standing member of a forest", there's a triangular structure on the "Place des nations" https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.5066126,-73.5331605,60m/data=!3m1!1e3 it seems that it used to be use to attach something http://www.worldfairs.info/expopavillondetails.php?expo_id=17&pavillon_id=2065 but I can't find a good picture of it. Could it have been a sculpture of a tree, thus the only member of a "forest" ?

Oregonian said

at 4:15 pm on Jul 27, 2017

Oh, it's definitely a light fixture. You can use Google streetview to go right up to it and look up at the bulb: https://goo.gl/maps/xmdT7GbhWgB2

The boxy design seems very "1970's-ish" to me. The flaking paint would also confirm that it's been there for awhile.

NYBass said

at 6:33 am on Jul 28, 2017

I am super curious as to what the two signs say. (The two that hang on the gate by the water)

David said

at 8:20 am on Jul 28, 2017

I misunderstood, though you were referring to something else. These lights must have been there for a while, probably when they initially built the path, which was probably when they expended the island.

NYBass said

at 1:35 pm on Jul 28, 2017

Any chance you could take pictures of the signs that hang on the gate facing the water?

DanaSkully said

at 2:48 pm on Jul 28, 2017

Hi David, We went to Montreal last summer and took tons of pictures. I loaded them onto a Tumblr and forgot about them, basically because they revealed nothing to me. HOWEVER if you want to see them: http://montreal-image-9.tumblr.com

There are pictures of this exact area if you scroll down a lot.

Oregonian said

at 7:31 pm on Jul 28, 2017

Great photos!

For that big sign about the anti-erosion efforts you say that it was "placed there in the early 90s." How did you find that out? Was there a date on the sign? It seems like WAY too much of a coincidence for a sign right there on the island to talk about the same thing described in this verse. If the current sign was placed there in the 1990's, I wonder if it replaced an older sign with the same content that was there in 1980.

DanaSkully said

at 12:49 am on Jul 29, 2017

The sign indicates that the erosion efforts were enacted in 1991-1992. Here's a pic, best description is in upper left hand corner of sign stating the work was done 1991ish: http://imgur.com/a/e4uor

NYBass said

at 7:29 am on Jul 29, 2017

Hey could we be looking at the wrong tree?
If he is saying the tree is the one closest to the white stone, then wouldn't it be the one on the other side of the fence? It looks like there are signs on that fence. I wonder what they say.

NYBass said

at 7:57 am on Jul 29, 2017

No signs. I was looking at a weird angle. Still that tree that is cliosest to the rock is right against a fence. It's fairly well hidden. The ask permission is still strange. But I think we are close.

DanaSkully said

at 2:54 pm on Jul 29, 2017

Oregonian, I expanded my image into an imgur album showing close-ups of the sign and rough translations. Basically because I have the pictures so why not share them.

http://imgur.com/a/e4uor

NYBass said

at 1:37 pm on Jul 28, 2017

Perhaps preiss was there while Work was being done and was able to insert the casque into a landscaping job? He could have asked the workers about how easy it could be for someone to dig it out and someone could have suggested that a digger would have to ask permission? Just spitballing.

David said

at 11:28 am on Jul 29, 2017

Maybe we should get permission from one of these guys: http://montreal-image-9.tumblr.com/image/149377815036 Per the Tumblr account, these are at Place des nations, close to the St-Helen white stone.

NYBass said

at 11:53 am on Jul 29, 2017

I like it

Oregonian said

at 1:24 pm on Jul 29, 2017

Those figures are just creepy as heck. Does anyone know when or why they were put up there?

Fenix said

at 4:53 pm on Aug 1, 2017

I've always been a bit unsure that this is the correct Montreal verse. However, if I am playing along,

Weight and roots extended
Together saved the site

would likely refer to the Biosphere and the welding fire in '76. The Biosphere would have been closed when Preiss was in Montreal in '81ish because the entire membrane was still missing.

As for:

Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest

A hunch would tell me that we are looking for an Elm. Montreal had a large outbreak of Dutch Elm Disease in the 70's. Very few Elm trees were left standing. Long ago I had a theory that led to the Botanical Garden's "Shade Garden". It was home to many elms which were stricken by DED and removed. Only a few were left standing.

The problem is, today, we could be looking for an elm in a forest of maples. :)

DanaSkully said

at 5:05 pm on Aug 1, 2017

Fenix,
When I went to Montreal last summer, we visited Mt. Royal. Get this: there are natural structures called "Oak Stands", where a very large and old oak tree towers above the other trees. They're called Oak Stands. We went nuts looking for a lone oak to the south, it was a lot of fun.

We learned a lot from the visitors centers that we didn't learn online. For instance, in the 1950s, the city thinned the trees and foliage of Mt. Royal considerably because of reports of homosexual activity (in the bushes?). The citizens were pretty upset by this controversial act. It makes me wonder about how Mt. Royal must have looked in the 80s, was it still pretty sparse? Was it sparse enough to where trees could have been landmarks to Preiss? Because now, it's very lush and overgrown. Anyway, I left Mt. Royal feeling like the casque was not there, but it was a fun day of hunting.

Are you in/near Montreal? The Botanical Garden was good/bad to me: good, because it seems to have been neglected in areas, which is good for a hunt, and bad: because I just could not find anything to match an image/verse.

Fenix said

at 9:15 am on Aug 2, 2017

I am in Montreal. I've been here for 13 years now.

The biggest issue with Montreal is the landscape has changed so significantly as you mentioned. If I could get this thing down to as close of a location as Wilhouse had the Houston cask, I would be happy. Unfortunately, the chances of unearthing anything after 35 years is highly unlikely.

Oregonian said

at 2:41 pm on Sep 14, 2017

I'd be curious to hear from more French-speaking Canadians about this. Are there other words besides "voie" that might convey one of the meanings of "lane"? Is there a possible play on words here, given that "du" is a homophone for "deux"? I'm wondering if it might be a name that starts something like "Voie du ..."

William said

at 4:07 pm on Sep 17, 2017

Yes, there are passage and ruelle, and I'm sure there are more. If you have an other questions about French, I'm fluent, so you can ask me :)

Oregonian said

at 5:54 pm on Sep 18, 2017

The thing I love about this hunt is that it teaches me so much weird and interesting history about the places involved!

Your suggestion about "ruelle" led me to an article about the history of Montreal's "Ruelles Vertes" (green alleyways): http://untappedcities.com/2013/08/07/montreals-ruelles-vertes-green-alleyways-help-the-environment-and-create-a-sense-of-community/
A link in that article led me to a 1969 documentary called "Les fleurs c'est pour Rosemont" about the movement that started it all: http://www.onf.ca/film/les_fleurs_c_est_pour_rosemont/
And check out that doorway featured in the splash page for the documentary! Was that what Preiss was referring to in this verse? Probably not. But it's an interesting coincidence.

Delilah said

at 12:22 pm on Sep 27, 2017

Hi guys, I've just dropped a couple of images on Image 09 thread and wanted to share here some thoughts about the poem.
This has already been posted on another site but wanted to share with you as well...

Referring to the poem, I wanted to point out, in case it could be of help, that two twenty two in French (Montreal's first language) would be "deux vingt deux", whose pronunciation sounds like "dévant de" which means "in front of".

Checkered patterns have been said to look like checkered grand prix flags. Flag in French is "drapeau". The park on St. Helene's island is parc Jean-Drapeau.

I thought that the wingless bird could be the Concorde plane, whose shape is peculiar and "less winged" than other planes. We have Concorde Bridge which links the island to Montreal.
"Lane" can be translated as "circuit" and we have Villeneuve Circuit on the island.

I've been visiting Lévis tower and the nearby area but couldn't find anything else relevant. The tower should have been part of a citadel in the past. There's a cannon museum on the island and cannons could look similar to the little thingy next to the legeater in the picture. No white stones next to the tower, apart from some guardstone bollards which probably haven't been there forever.

I was thinking to go and visit the white stone you pointed out in this workspace.

I'll be around for few days, let me know if you want to meet/discuss/dig!

Cheers!

Jwebster3 said

at 11:59 pm on Nov 13, 2017

Hi all,
New to this hunt but I’ve been doing some research and have some interpretations I’d like some comments about. First of all there the citadel of Montreal used to exist but was taken down to allow for the extension of the rue de Nore-dame. But I don’t think this is the citadel. I think the citadel is “Old Montreal”. Old Montreal was a walled city and is the core or most fortified part of Montreal. And while these walls themselves are not granite they are limestone (which could be chalk white) BUT to preserve these walls when they were removed for progress, they have replaced them with granite tiles to walk on. So the “roots extended”(history) and the “weight” (people walking on them) together have saved the walls which are now granite of the citadel of Old Montreal. Park “champ-de-mars” has existing limestone wall (only public place it can still be found) which protected the Jesuit and St laurent strongholds (citadels?) and place Jacques Cartier is near the “residence du governor” (citadel?) and has these granite tiles where the wall used to be. Also the checker pattern and Color matches the floor at st Patrick’s basilica. Which is also within the old city walls.

Anyway I look forward to thoughts.

Jwebster3 said

at 12:15 am on Nov 14, 2017

Sorry I forgot a couple things.

Also the flower on the image resembles the stained glass window of st Patrick’s basilica. Which if you look at at night has only one green peak that looks like a “ lone tree”

Brad said

at 11:31 am on Oct 28, 2018

On a completely different tack... have we suggested Mount Royal Chalet as a possible location. If we look at the coat of the figure in the picture, we see GWL and the Leg Eater Dog (see my comment on the picture page). If we align them correctly, the flower would be roughly at the Mount Royal Chalet. There seems to be a white something in the google map just to the West of the building (https://goo.gl/maps/1yeHqkW5X6n) could that be stone? Can't tell from google map... The area has stone halls, granite retaining walls etc. but no arc of lights.
Just a thought???
B

Freeki said

at 9:09 pm on Jan 6, 2019

Lane = The Saint Lawrence river and maybe the metro, Expo Express or the hovercraft to Ile Sainte-Helene.
How can this not be on Ile Sainte-Helene (Weight and roots extended, Together saved the site, Of granite walls)
Shape of his mouth is Montreal
Shape of beret is shape of Ile Sainte-Helene
67 in flower Expo67 or Habitat67
Legeaterdog (Montreal/George Stephen House)
Image next to Legeaterdog (Metro,Hoovercraft,Submarine ,Habitat67?)
The square with the X appears to contain two runes (wunjô/Joy ,laguz/Lake water or Ocean ) Maybe Complexe aquatique on Ile Sainte-Helene
Wind swept halls = Long-abandoned building underneath Jacques-Cartier Bridge (Made of stone and is white)
Citadel in the night =Levis tower,Saint Helen Island Fort or (Why in the night??)could this be the lighthouse , which stands on a white painted stone .
A wingless bird ascended, Born of ancient dreams of flight = Helicopter ?? Helicopterpad north on the island next to the heli-hover Terminus(555)
or This could refer to the Air Canada pavilion at Expo 67 which was located very close to the Metrostation and Complexe aquatique on Ile Sainte-Helene

Everything points to Parc Jean-Drapeau or atleast Ile Sainte Helene

The Dutch Cornelius Drebbel invented the first submarine also the Dutch famous for water, ships and engineering.
The word Fée = Fairy (Could this be ferry??)
222 (555 = Map Location number of Terminus Helipad and Hovercraft of Expo67 )
P1 could also be parking spot 1.

Freeki said

at 9:38 pm on Jan 6, 2019

His hands are the biggest mystery , maybe his fingers form a E for East.
https://ibb.co/HPzKwwW 1980 from Ile Notre-Dame
https://ibb.co/BKNcwDy 1927
https://ibb.co/HX8NTHY 2008
https://ibb.co/vZxXjh3 The Lighthouse
https://ibb.co/xj2dq7L public transport map Expo 67
https://ibb.co/cY1WfJ0 Metro station (Looks like the weird robot in a way , also to the left is a stairs going up)
https://ibb.co/Xtrp2Fp Steward Museum/Saint Helen Island Fort
https://ibb.co/gdwr5ts La Ronde No clue how old this is.


Oregonian said

at 11:34 am on Jan 7, 2019

Those are great photos! Good work!

The most likely solution has always been the southern tip of Saint Helen's Island, positioned in some relation to the white stone. But that lamp post with the underground wiring is a huge obstacle. It would be great if someone could scour the public records in Montreal to find out exactly when the lamp was installed. Proving whether or not it was there in 1980 would be a big step forwards.

Oregonian said

at 10:07 am on May 17, 2019

Full credit to a wiki user named Laurel who found the Griffintown location for Godard's balloon launch! This has the potential to be the first big breakthrough in this puzzle in years. The Griffintown clue fits in with all sorts of existing clues and it's exactly the sort of historical detail that Preiss would have loved to include. If any puzzle solvers in Montreal are interested in pursuing this, it would be great to see some photos of neighborhoods, parks, landmarks, and such. It's particularly interesting that St. Anne Park is directly in line with Drummond Avenue, the site of the legeater dog.

Laurel, I've given you access to the site. Feel free to add your own contributions.

David said

at 4:16 pm on Jun 18, 2019

Might be worth to look into although in the early 80s Griffintown was mostly an industrial neighbourhood, not really the kind of place a tourist would visit and dig a hole. Sadly the area is now mostly condo towers built in the ~5 yrs, thus the cask would probably be lost...

Oregonian said

at 9:28 am on Jul 22, 2019

Yeah, after looking into it for awhile I came to the same conclusion about Griffintown. BUT... I'm still pretty certain that Godard's balloon (the "Canada") is the "wingless bird" being described in this verse. The balloon launched from the gasworks in Griffintown and then drifted eastwards across the river. The southern tip of Sainte Helene Island would be the best place in the entire city to see the flight. It makes sense that, after leading us on this route across the bridge and down through the island, Preiss would have us pause to consider the historic importance of the spot.

Freeki said

at 6:54 pm on Oct 22, 2019

https://imgshare.io/image/image2.vvOvF
Ive send this to your email delete this if you got it.

Nick Cook said

at 11:59 pm on Jun 18, 2019

"Wind swept halls" - this has to be a reference to the Expo buildings.

The Expo 67 buildings were in such a state of disrepair in the late 1970s that the sci-fi show Battlestar Galactica filmed an episode there ("Greetings from Earth"). I made a short clip of the building footage here: https://youtu.be/ViEo_Vg8EgQ

Freeki said

at 6:16 pm on Oct 20, 2019

Legeaterdog (Fleur de Lys) + Golden Square = the start point.(GSHouse)

Lane = Rue Peel or Green Metro line that runs almost directly under the GSHouse

Two twenty two = Rue Peel Rte 112 (also location of Peel station)+-222meters away from starting point

You'll see an arc of lights , possible definition of arc : a curved path

Weight and roots extended Together saved the site Of granite walls , Could this be about the Metro lines

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Metro#/media/File:Metro_Montreal_Evolution.gif

Freeki said

at 6:34 pm on Oct 20, 2019

The problem with the green line is that is has many stations next to parcs and it curves in the north and the south.
But if you go north you have station Pie-IX (In the image u have above the Legeaterdog pX1)
Station Pie-IX is located at the olympic stadion.

Freeki said

at 6:54 pm on Oct 20, 2019

I wish could edit my comments , i know the olympic stadium wasnt finished yet but it wasnt hard to know what it was gonna like when it was done.
Maybe its just me but i think i see the Montreal Tower between his sleeves under his handpalm ,it has the same curve.

Freeki said

at 1:32 am on Oct 25, 2019

The Sir George-Étienne Cartier Monument is a monument in Montreal (Material Bronze, Stanstead GRANITE)
The monument, which is topped by a WINGED Goddess of Liberty, was inaugurated on September 6, 1919 in the heart of Fletcher's Field west side
On the front, or East side of the monument, George-Étienne Cartier is portrayed standing above four other figures,
each one representing a Province that signed the Canadian Confederation of 1867!.
On the North side of the monument, a woman with a young girl to her right and a young boy to her left is shown holding a sword in her left hand.
The boy holds out his bonded wrists in a begging manner as the girl reads a book. This scene represents Legislation.
On the South side, in a similar scene to the North side, a woman sits in the middle of a young boy who is holding a ball and a young girl who is reading a book.
This represents Cartier's important contributions in education.
He is recognized as one of the Fathers of Confederation; Canada was officially founded on 1 July 1867.

Goddess of Liberty*/Liberty (personification)/Dutch Maiden ,The Dutch Maiden has been used as a national symbol since the 16th century. During the Dutch Revolt.
*Most others are wingless.

George-Étienne Cartier Monument/Fletcher's Field west side/Jeanne-Mance Park west side


Jeanne-Mance Park =

George-Étienne Cartier Monument

The Canadian Grenadier Guards
21 July 1944. From that time until VE Day on 8 May 1945, 22 CAR fought throughout the battles around Falaise,
the move into Belgium and the Netherlands and finally across the Rhine, earning 12 Honorary Distinctions.

Pavillon Mordecai-Richler
Montreal Fire Dept 4040
Montreal Centre Securite Cvl
McConnell Arena Icehockey
Many stairs in park
Musée des hospitalières de l'Hotel Dieu de Montréal
Also American footbal fields


Beneath the only standing member
Of a forest
To the south
White stone closest
At twelve paces
From the west side
Get permission
To dig out.

Freeki said

at 1:33 am on Oct 25, 2019

Picture of white stone south Jeanne-Mance Park
https://ibb.co/CWNFPL6
Cartier/Goddess of Liberty
https://ibb.co/nbYHKrN

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